549 DOE jobs = 17 furlough days?

[holahan]

if you haven't seen this, enjoy...

http://www.starbulletin.com/news/2009103...funds.html

seems that the DOE managed to "squeak," out 549 new jobs from the stimulus money. wow, you'd think with all those new employees that they'd have a little left over to pay some teachers to stay in schools on friday and keep the lights on...

i can't believe THIS is our government...let alone, THIS is how our tax dollars are spent...

[xx(]

[Rob Tucker]

Does anyone know how many teachers are employed by DOE and how many staff and administrators? I would like to understand the ratio of management to teachers.

[holahan]

EXACTLY! was wondering the very same thing Rob! or, better yet, what percentage of those 549 NEW jobs are teaching? hmmm... i'm guessing not too many if hawai'i is knee-deep in furloughs...

can we get the "vomit," smiley rob? pretty much best expresses my feeling right now... [xx(]

[Bob Orts]

2008 Hawaii Dept of Education summary

Students: 181,406
Staff: 21,651 *

* Staff
Classroom Teachers: 11,395
Librarians: 257
Counselors: 659
Administrators
School: 544
State: 228
Other Support Staff: 8,568 (not broken down by type)

[Rob Tucker]

Thanks Bob, You are a whiz with stats. How can we compare this ratio with other states?

That Other Support Staff is a large number. There can't be that many groundskeepers and janitors.

It would also be informative to know how many independent contractors and consultants feed at the DOE.

[Bob Orts]

Try this:
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2009/pdf/31_2009.pdf

The "other" includes clerical, janitors, maint, food service, transportation, security, medical, grounds, facility, logistical, etc, etc, etc. basically anyone not included in the above.

"Administrators" are those in upper supervisory positions (suits).

[Rob Tucker]

I also found this:

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2007/sec...ableID=728

Table 35-2. Number of regular public school teachers and student support staff, average number of students per staff, and percent of schools with such staff, by school poverty status and type of school staff: School year 2003–04

High-poverty
All teachers 37.5 %
All student support staff 15.6 %
Licensed or certified professionals 5.4 %
School counselors 1.2%
Nurses 1.0%
Social workers 0.6%
Psychologists 0.6%
Speech therapists 1.1%
Other professionals 0.9%
Teacher aides 10.2%
Instructional aides 9.0%
Special education 3.1%
Regular Title I 2.3%
ESL/bilingual teacher 1.2%
Library 0.4%
Other 1.9%
Noninstructional aides 1.3%
Special education 0.4%
Library 0.2%
Other 0.7 %

I haven't had time to compare this to Hawaii yet. Perhaps someone can before I can get to it.

[Devany]

If they cut out half of the administrators I bet the schools could stay open and probably run just as well. They could even share principals, many of our schools are on or across the street from lower division schools.

Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany

www.myhawaiianhome.blogspot.com
www.eastbaypotters.blogspot.com

[Bob Orts]

Interesting item, Hawaii and Alaska has the highest cost per student in facility operations and capital cost. Basically we all know that it cost more to live in Hawaii and it appears that schools are not immune to that high cost of operation. Construction, supplies, utilities are all almost 30% more than comparable mainland school districts. That's a big cost in the budget of the DOE that isn't present in mainland school cost.

Another surprising fact is educational departments with a singe centralized school authority (such as Hawaii) have a better student to staff ratio and payout per pupil than those with segmented layers such as multiple school authorities and boards. The more layers, the more duplicated bureaucracy and cost.

Now, it's interesting that a relatively new concept in education, (last 5 or so years) is splitting educational from school facilities. This results in almost all schools meeting or exceeding facility standards. That means a level playing field for all schools with no Taj Mahals for some and tents for others. A school can't get funding for new flowers out front if another school needs plumbing repairs. No fancy paint job for one school if another needs roof repairs. A Principal is not going to get new office desks if another school’s floors are covered with plywood due to holes. Although there is a bit more bureaucracy, spending cost actually levels off as schools are not spending money just because they have it. The net results have been a return of revenue to classrooms.

So more bureaucracy isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's the production of that bureaucracy that's important.

It’s also worth noting that some programs are expected by parents even if they do not contribute to the student education. You would be surprised at the outcry if parents learned a school administration didn't apply for an available grant. But many grants are not necessarily classroom services. They may be for other types of programs and the school could get stuck offering a program nobody really cares about or paying for teacher seminars and rah-rah-rah sessions because they received grant money to do it. And often times these grants are not 100% funded. The school may get the grant for the seminar, instructors, program material, but the hourly salary for the teacher to attend is out of the regular school budget. Often the parents really have no idea what that grant means and what it does, all they hear is free money - so the school should be going after it.

You can't say schools have too much bureaucracy and in the same breath condemn them for not thinking ahead to have staff to handle some unforeseen issue. Remember, these centralized bloated school administration came into existence because of the inability for these separate school boards to meet parent expectations.

If schools were allowed to be institution of learning, and not also for babysitting, parent stand-ins, nutrition resources, counseling, therapist, after-school activities, life coaching, moral evaluators, social workers, dieticians, big brothers, big sisters, and guardian mediators, maybe they could do the job of being educators.

[jade]

22,000 are employed by the DOE and 13,000 are teachers.
http://www.starbulletin.com/news/2009103...ooner.html