Elevation and farming in Puna....

[dobanion]

My wife and I are getting ready to start looking for property in Puna. I have been cramming on as much info on the area as I can lately. We intend to try and do a off the grid homestead (yeah, you have all heard it before).

Here's the dilema. Do we go with not much space (less than .5 acre) in the lower (sub 600') area, or get the 3 acres up in Fern Forest (2000' and up)?

I'm trying to get an idea of what crops I give up completely (coconut) going up there, and which ones are still fruiting but less so (breadfruit?), and which ones grow great (upland taro, what else?).

I also want to hunt and/or trap wild pigs for meat, that's a consideration, and that means fern forest is very good right?

I'm leaning towards the uplands in Fern Forest, seeing as how I like being "out there" and wanting to build a small cabin instead of a 1000+ sq ft up to code house.

Thanks for any feedback.

[Ryan.]

Welcome to punaweb! With your stated object in mind, I believe the lower elevation is the way to go. While establishing an off-grid homestead can be accomplished nearly anywhere on this island, there are some places that are far less ideal than others. Fern Forest is one of those places, even if you just look at it from a standpoint of the more objective data (solar power generation potential, rainfall, temperatures, etc.). You'll find plenty of pigs and unpermitted building potential throughout Puna, so these are not unique selling points.

Fern Forest prices have a way of exciting potential transplants. Suddenly moving to Hawaii feels doable. I know, as they initially had this effect upon me and many others I've spoken with. While there are a few people for whom it is truly a special place, the vast majority of us interested in country living could do much better elsewhere. In our case, we decided to rent an off-grid homestead on 5 acres in lower Puna. With some experience gained, we've now purchased our own acreage to develop in a similar fashion.

With regard to growing food, there is a huge difference in growing potential (<500 ft. vs >2000 ft.). If growing is a matter of any real importance to you, you cannot afford to overlook this.

Perhaps you'd consider spending some time and renting first, before eventually purchasing a piece of property?

[durian]

Bananas are a great source of starch. Combined with wild pigs, bananas harvested green make a decent meal that you can eat again and again. But bananas are not a good crop at 2000'. Coconuts are hugely useful, available year round, and a nice source of minerals for someone drinking rainwater as you likely would be. No coconuts at 2000'. Papayas are an easy source of vit A, will be ready to harvest in a year, but won't be happy at 2000'. At 2000' you are looking at sweet potatoes, persimmons, granidillos, litchees... More important to a homesteader than breadfruit is breadnut, a breadfruit with 30-50 chestnut-sized seeds. I don't think it would grow well at 2000'. For me the choice is easy, stay under 600', the lower the better and make bananas, coconut, papayas, chickens, sweet potatoes, taro, breadnut and breadfruit the backbone of your food production. If you can get your mind around killing guinea pigs, they are an easy source of good meat at any elevation. They are easier to raise than most other farm animals and as they are small, you won't need to refridgerate the uneaten parts after a slaughter. You can grow many colourful fruits at the low elevations to supliment your easy-to-grow things. But to be self sufficient you'll have to bring cinder to your land or rip and cinder your land. This will cost as much as the land but will still be much cheaper than land with soil at that elevation.

[kani-lehua]

fern forest app. 2400 ft. elevation: our bananas produce like crazy. problem is that they come into fruition all at the same time. citrus does fine up here. papayas were doing really well until they were attacked by slugs. we just buy them at the kea'au open market 7/$1.00. wayward tomato plants growing like weeds albeit the chickens have found the fruit quite delectable. agriculture is doable, you just have to work at it.

we are smack dab in the rain belt. no problems with drought for sure.

coolness: we love it.

solar power: doable.

internet: we have dial-up, but there are other options.

roads: some are good some are not so good.

pigs: supposedly, there's a pig sanctuary on our road. the guy has, what we're told, approximately 160 of them roaming around. he has in the past been arrested for brandishing a shotgun at those who try to kill "his" pigs.

3 acre lots: keep in mind that most are "spaghetti" shaped lots.

current weather report: sunny with some clouds. 72 degrees in the shade. the coldest we've experienced was 48 degrees last year.

eta: pineapples do well, too.



"a great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

w. james

[robguz]

Hawaiian or Fern Acres as a compromise? A little lower but a bit more expensive, 2-3 acres. 1 acre HPP might be an option too. Aside from availability of pigs, you can grow a lot on an acre or less. Other than things I don't grow, I'm getting more than enough fruit and vegetables to feed myself and partner on under 8000 ft, and I'm a vegan so I eat far more fruits and veggies than most people. I end up giving a lot of stuff away or just letting it go to waste and become mulch in the yard.

[dobanion]

8000ft....you mean 8000 sq ft...so that's what.....Nanawale?

That's my thinking......two lots in Nanawale for .36 (or something) acre, with 4-8 breadfruit trees as my "no matter what I won't starve."

I suppose I need to find out what my staple of preference would be, roasted breadfruit or poi. I guess when I get to puna I'll figure out which I like best. From all my reading, wetland taro turned to poi is in high regard, and breadfruit is what you eat when you got to. I heard the slaves on Jamaica refused to eat it after it's introduction.

You buy papayas for 7/$1.00?! Papayas were always my favorite part of going to great grandmas house (my childhood was in Honolulu). And I haven't had a good one since I left.

I guess I should have posed the question, what things simply don't fruit in Fern Forest? I KNOW coconuts won't, and I have heard breadfruit won't (though the tree still grows).

Now is 500' 10x as productive as 2000'? Cause that's about the transference of price between those elevations.

[Ryan.]

Re: Breadfruit. Everyone has their preferences. For me breadfruit is better than merely a survival food (though it's great for this purpose). We enjoy it. Just had roasted breadfruit with grilled onions for lunch.

Re: Degree of agricultural productivity vs. money spent. It's not quite that simple. For me, there are a multitude of factors that combine to make the additional expense worthwhile. A few off the top of my head are increased solar panel performance, better neighborhood, suitable location for a water well, more cheerful environment (ie. more sunshine, less gray skies), and a happier spouse. This is in addition, of course, to greatly increased variety of what can be grown and typically much healthier growing of plants that grow in either area. All of these are worth something to me and combined with others (which aren't readily coming to mind at the moment), I'm willing to pay extra for them. To each his own though, we're all looking for a little different scenario.

[Nalu]

Have to throw my 2 cents in at 2100-2200 ft in Mt. View. Everything grows wonderfully here. I have over 20 different clumps of bananas around our property with 3 differnt kinds. Bananas do EXTREMELY well up here. I have a meyer lemon that is so loaded with lemons the branches are sagging, both my neighbors have tangerine trees that are loaded. I think for a gardening lifestyle there is no where better than here except perhaps maybe Waimea. The only thing I have come across that won't fruit up here is coconuts, so I've heard..haven't tried it. In addition I have growing happily a Dorsett Apple tree, try growing that any where else in Hawaii..mulberry tree, 2 lime trees, peach tree, lilikoi, sugar cane, cinnamon, clove, and Poha berries grow like weeds. We lived in Hawaiian Paradise park before moving up here to Peck Rd. Would never go back to the lower elevations. My veg. garden is doing great now too 2 kinds of tomatoes, lettuce, green beans, sweet potato. Again..just my 2 cents. If it was me, I would go for maybe an acre or so lot in the Kulani rd or Ihope rd area, good deep soil. Fern Forest I have heard is a bit more rocky, I'm on Peck Road and have never had to bring in soil, we have plenty.

[kani-lehua]

yes. papayas $7/$1. sometimes it's 5 or 6/$1 buck. i'd rather buy than grow those because they're so cheap.

what part of honolulu? we're from o'ahu, too.

fern forest is rocky like nalu mentioned. there's always the possibility of greenhouses/screenhouses and raised beds for growing food. like i said, it's doable. you just have to work at it.



"a great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

w. james

[durian]

I have found that bananas grown in cool areas, if allowed to ripen will have hard centers. The flower also doesn't want to emerge if the weather is cool, which can cause all of the plants to delay their maturity to the same time. In the low lands bananas, coconuts and papayas are at home. That is why they are grown commercially at elevations below 2000'. It certainly isn't because farm land in Kapoho (papayas) or Kurtistown (bananas) is cheap. It is encouraging, however to hear of people being happy with their banana and papaya production and quality at 2000 feet. I have read of Indian banana varieties that do well at 4000' but not sure what latitude in India.
You can eat breadfruit every day and not get sick of it. The trick, I think, is to eat it with meat. Breadfruit with beans or peas doesn't satisfy me fully. People who eat lots of breadfruit tend to eat it roasted over fire. When you first start eating breadfruit, don't expect it to taste like potato or bread. Let it be what it is. You will get used to it, even if you don't like it at first.
I've not made pounded breadfruit, but have made pounded taro and pounded taro with water and then fermented. I can't remember what is called poi and what is poi poi. The fermented taro is fantastic and almost magical. How unsalted food can sit it a bucket at 70 degrees F and not go bad after a month is beyond my understanding. A couple of spoons of fermented taro paste into a soup gives the soup a rich cheesy flavour that is lovely and doesn't resemble the flavour of taro at all.