Ignoring evacuation orders

[spunky]

I realize it's a digression from topic, but I for one was infuriated by the letter to the editor in today's (3/15) Tribune Herald by Jim White. Seems Jim took it upon himself to ignore the many siren alarms and the cops traveling up and down the roads in lower HPP urging people to evacuate because HE researched it online and determined that there was no severe threat.

Is he a meterologist? An oceanographer? A disaster management research scientist? He didn;t say but I am guessing no.

We've had 2 tsunamis in 13 months and have been very lucky. At some point we WILL get hit with another large tsunami. Letters like Jim's give people the impression that it's ok to ignore government evacuation orders if they find someone on the internet that says it's ok.

Who gave Jim such special info that he had better info than state and county Civil Defense inside the EOC? Apparently, Jim based his research on info he found online, including the Pacific Disaster Center (PDC). While I have the utmost respect for the work conducted by the PDC, I am NOT willing to risk my life by staying within a tsunami inundation zone just because their computer model says its ok.

People like Jim piss me off because, they snub their nose at authority in the face of disaster, put first responders at risk during disasters because the first responders have to either keep asking them to leave or go back and rescue them, and then they are the first to complain about lack of response.

I am reminded of the severe hurricane that struck the Texas coastline a few years ago. People ignored evacuation orders and stayed. When the storm got really hairy, folks who stayed behind got scared and demanded that fire & police come rescue them. Only it was too late and firefighters couldn't reach them. Many of those folks were washed away and never heard from again.

God forbid we get hit with a hurricane and/or tsunami and Jim's last thoughts before getting killed are "but the internet research said it would be ok...."

[TrevorKane]

What people don't realize is that while they are probably right that they don't need to evacuate, when they are wrong, they may not find out until it's too late.

In my lifetime, disaster prediction has been inaccurate enough to ensure that, sooner or later, the best predictions of this year's "big one" will be wrong. When everyone tries to run after the last minute, it gets ugly - sometimes piles of bodies washing up on the beach ugly. Galveston 1900, Key West 1919, Indonesia 2004, New Orleans 2005, Japan 2011 - I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch, and there was a period in the mid to late 1900s when we were blessed with an absence of major natural disasters.

I saw a home video made by some people who "rode out" one of the major hurricanes of 2005 (on YouTube), if I recall correctly, it started with the water coming in the living room, so they climbed into the attic, then the water started making the attic uncomfortable, so they blasted out the gable end with a shotgun, and I think they had some lame plan involving a small aluminum fishing boat, which ultimately ended with a ride on a Coast Guard helicopter - otherwise the video wouldn't have made it to the Internet.

I'm glad we've got the Coast Guard, but it's a very thin safety net that won't work at all if you've got 100+ people who need saving.

[Larry T]

I understand some of the thoughts. If we evacuate why does it take hours after the fire dept. gives the all clear on one side of the island for the whole island to wait in cars listening to the radio say everything is clear? Open the areas by area, not whole island. 7 hours to wait on a 1-6 foot wave is not real. If they keep this up more are going to stay, where we were parked about half said next time they were going to stay. I think the time before it was a less than 1 foot wave that kept us in the cars. Some one needs to get their act together and do this in a timely manner.

[TrevorKane]

Oh yeah, it's frustrating as hell... most of your life you aren't really impeded by government workers directly - but in a disaster evacuation scenario, you've got the worst of all worlds coming together: government workers doing something they don't have much, if any experience with, worried about life safety issues.

The best way I've found to deal with them is: 1) stay away from shelters, 2) stay away from "mandatory" evacuations when possible (i.e. leave early, return late), 3) try to take it in a "vacation from the ordinary" frame of mind, instead of a "they're wasting my time by doing their job poorly" frame of mind. Yes, they (collectively) are often doing their job poorly, but often the individuals in the system are doing an outstanding job, within the limits of their authority, it's the system as a whole that fails.

As to "wasting your time" - yeah, probably, but is it really that important to you? If it is, maybe you want to get involved in disaster preparedness drills and help make it go better next time? If nothing else, maybe you would learn to appreciate some of the challenges that these people are facing which lead to "pointless" seven hour delays for a bunch of evacuees.

[Greg]

I believe that if the county made evacuation "voluntary" it could cause other unforeseen problems. Which of the dozen or so people in the affected area are residents? which are people helping? Which are looters? Having everyone out probably makes it easier for the Po-Po to control access and oversee the situation.

If matters do take an unforeseen turn for the worst; how much more difficult to organize rescue missions is it, when the CD doesn't know who, where, or how many people are there?

I would suggest that people living in an inundation (or seismic, or lava, or high risk fire) make their own emergency plan with friends or family when possible.

I'm also pretty sure that if the county wasn't so proactive this event wouldn't have been fatality free.

edit: grammer

[anthonyf]

I like yer spunk, spunky.

I see a lot of "question authority" bumper stickers in Puna. I think many people interpret that to read "ignore authority".

What many fail to realize is the Tsunami science is not well know and they can never predict wave height accurately.

[amf217]

Spank I am a LEO in Florida there is a point where we will not come get you! A Mandatory evacuation is a joke no such thing! Yes some dumb people stay and die, kinda like Ron White says you can't fix stupid. There is just no need to get pissed off it gains nothing. We always ask them the same thing when they say they aren't leaving. 1. Give us you full name and DOB. 2. Give us the name of next of kin. 3. Do you have any scars marks or tattoos that can be used to ID your body. 4. If available do you have a funeral home preference, we can not guarantee your choice but we will try. About 25% leave the rest are hopeless. The sad thing is unless it destroys their home more will stay each time.

[Kapohocat]

My husband is of the same mind as Jim White. That said, I personally think they are crazy - both my husband and Jim WHite. And yes, Robert watches the sims too and is fairly intelligent to be able to extrapolate what the scientists are modeling. So do I think my husband is as smart as a scientist? Yes probably smarter actually. Do I think he errs on the side of caution as the Civil Defense does? NO!! (Although we did evac at 2:30 AM but mainly because I said I am taking the cat and myself and do you want us to be orphans? Guilt works every time!!!! )

I do think they keep crying wolf and one day it will be the wolf at our door. and we will ignore it. Although the pics from Japan did a lot more than the evac order personally. You get those mental pics, and say I am outta here!

So, what our neighborhood is doing is thinking about setting up a spot for evacs that is inside the road block, so when the wave passes, people can return sooner which will make them want to evac because they can get back sooner if safe. Also we are going to make it comfortable for people - somewhere with people they know, some one with the ice chest and water/soda/juice. A BBQ maybe, flashlights for more than just ourselves, etc. Try to make it a little more festive and not so sit in my car and wait uncomfortable. Just like trying to get kids to eat veggies - this is good for you never works. SO what about this is fun ! Come and block party with us! That might work better!

We have a large area above Iilani rd but not to Hwy 137 that is out of the tsunami zone but behind 4 corners. I truly understand the police stopping people at Bryson's cinder driveway just up from 4 corners, as it is the only place to effectively use the least manpower for the largest amount of area - roadblock there stops WaaWaa from this side, Kapoho BL's, FL's, and Vacationland, Green Lake, and with block on the Pohiki side, effectively have controlled a larger area with 4 cops. Two cops at Kamaili Rd, and 2 on Hwy 137, before turn of to Kalapana and the whole area is done with 8 police (although they did call all the reservists up so they had more at each stop.)

-Cat

Edited to add: Amf217, yes a PW'er just gave us an idea for the NW meeting, plastic luggage tags for those who are staying to wear on their ankles or wrist with the name, DOB, emergency contact. We also are going to make a list of those staying so as I told one person, the authorities will know which bodies we are looking for.

[Rob Tucker]

There are a number of images from the 1960 tsunami in Hilo that people should keep in mind. Everyone gets to make their own decisions but I think our civil defense did and does do a good job for a poor rural county in the middle of the Pacific.

There was some English bloke standing on the seawall in Kona when the tsunami waves hit filming. He seems to have felt it was fascinating and kinda fun. One damn lucky dude.

[Carey]

I like Trevor Kane take on making the evacuation a "Vacation from the Ordinary". Combine that with Cats BBQ for the neighborhood & you have got an evacuation that most people will WANT to do.... The Evacuation Block Party!

This idea does increase the size of your evacuation kit - adding pop-up, chairs, BBQ, flashlights/lamps, group games....but it is definitely more fun than sitting in a car just waiting for HOURS, and more of the spirit we have found here in Puna....
This is also a very good way to get all of the neighbors together.
ETA and a good way to do a neighborhood watch from a safe distance.
(Oh and there are those cute little packaged BBQs that would be great for the evac kit (that someone from Scuba Sunday has), and we always have a pack of frozen hot dogs .... so that would not be a huge burden for most..