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My partner was one of the few who attended the Pahoa installment of the Hawaii County Council's public hearing on banning plastic shopping bags.
From what I hear, the debate was pretty passionate.
Over last night's dinner (with friends) the topic arose, arguments ensured and the sides were drawn along anti-pollution concerns against the less-government-intrusion-in-of-my-life position.
I don't think I've seen much discussion on Punatalk concerning the proposed ban and am curious how Puna residents feel about it - and why.
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First of all the "plastic bag ban" does not ban plastic bags. Nothing in it prevents anyone from buying and using all the plastic bags they want. Store aisles are full of plastic bags of every size and type. The ordinance will probably result in a broader selection of plastic bags for sale.
There is no intrusion on the rights of private citizens. There is intrusion on the methods and actions of retail establishments.
What the ordinance will do is stop the rather mindless and casual dispersal of millions of flimsy, cheap plastic bags for free at checkout stands. What people seem to be complaining about is they want them for free, without forethought and without apparent willingness to consider the impacts of cheap throwaway plastic.
On a scale of one to ten I rate the issue on an outrage scale of one.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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Just an observation....
Shopping recently with someone at a supermarket my friend bought five items. I did a close count on the plastic packaging involved
and to get those five items home involved thirteen plastic throwaway packaging items.
Somehow the grocery packer seems to need double bags on most everything. There was a bag of onions in a plastic mesh bag and a cake encased in a stiff plastic pan and clear cover. There was some broccoli which got a plastic bag in the vegetable section and ended up alone in another plastic carry out. The plastic the chicken was packaged in had two. Total of thirteen toss off plastic things to get five grocery items home.
It was really an amazing amount of throwaway stuff to get five things home from the market.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
on on the methods and actions of retail establishments.
plastic bags for free at checkout stands. What people seem to be complaining about is they want them for free, without forethought and without apparent willingness to consider the impacts of cheap throwaway plastic.
They are not free,the price is already included in the store merchandise price.If a customer would have to pay for a bag he'd pay twice for the same bag.
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[/quote]They are not free,the price is already included in the store merchandise price.If a customer would have to pay for a bag he'd pay twice for the same bag.
[/quote]
The price for a plastic carry out bag, such as retailers will be prohibited from providing, may now, prior to implementation of the law, be included in operating cost, like electricity and water. That does not mean that the operating cost will continue to be calculated the same way after implementation.
Whether a retailer would try (or succeeding in trying) to double charge could turn out to be a matter of competition.
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Personally I carry two reusable canvas bags in my car and bring them into the grocery store every time I visit. If everyone did that imagine the good impact on the environment (every little thing helps.
Also, it makes me mad to think about all of the plastic water bottles floating in the ocean. What ever happend to plain old tap water or reusable water containers? Laziness and wastefullness abounds :/
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For me grocery store bags are reusable.I use them as garbage bags.I doubt that we are going to see price reduction in stores because of no bags.I would have pay for my reusable bag maintenance and buy garbage bags .
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Stores definitely overuse them. I counted like 6 unneeded ones on a recent visit to Safeway - I don't need my detergent in a bag - it has a handle - I don't need a separate bag for, say, the potatoes - Rob's example was a good one. And since I do use them for dog poo and trash bags, I'd like them to stay around. I like the fact that they have more than one life. I appreciate how easy they are to carry vs. a paper bag. What I don't use, I recycle.
Remember when plastic bags first came out and everyone was up in arms because they felt they squished the bread, etc., and wanted good ol' paper bags? We would have less plastic bags turning into airborne flotsam and jetsam if more people took their responsibilities seriously. But in an area that has no trash pickup, where people take their own loads of trash to the transfer station, you're going to get more of them flying around. I have cloth reusable bags in the trunk of my car and I've yet to remember them each and every time I go into a store!
All that said, and being a card-carrying Leftie, I do totally get the argument that it's stupid for government to mandate no plastic bags at checkouts. They're convenient for the stores, they're convenient for the shoppers. Mandate store plastic bag recycling bins if you want to mandate something. (btw, I also am against mandated obsolescence of incandescent bulbs. I like them for use in dimming lights -- the dimming CFLs don't dim the same. If I want them, I want to be able to buy them.)
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Eliminating plastic bags doesn't solve any problems. It takes far more energy and water to make paper bags, and they don't decompose any faster in a landfill. When I was in Mexico the plastic bags were't free. If you didn't bring your own bags you had to buy them, or take all your items out loose.
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quote:
Originally posted by terracore
Eliminating plastic bags doesn't solve any problems. It takes far more energy and water to make paper bags, and they don't decompose any faster in a landfill. When I was in Mexico the plastic bags were't free. If you didn't bring your own bags you had to buy them, or take all your items out loose.
Eliminating plastic carry out bags solves the problem of those bags escaping into the environment where the plastic disintegrates into particles, with toxic effects, and does not decompose.
Eliminating plastic bags does not mean using paper bags, so comparisons in that regard are disingenuous at best.
Paying for the bags at the counter is certainly worth considering.
