RE: Snow

[dakine]

quote:

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Originally posted by Carey

IPCC has NEVER used that term...

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I think the words being floated today are.. Climate Change Science.. and in fact the USGS has fully incorporated this into their mission. The studying of the processes involved are a fully funded aspect of the agency. I doubt it would be so without cause. Some info about these studies can be found at... http://geochange.er.usgs.gov/

The idea of warming or cooling is a hotly debated subject though. I believe the modeling suggests that warming will in time lead to cooling.. ie eventually there is enough moisture released and accumulated in the atmosphere to block sunlight sufficiently and we start heading south. The big question being how long that process takes from the onset of the increased warming. But, in the meantime, the amount of ice being warmed and turned to water is staggering, regardless of what anyone wants to call it. And actually, in some places, it's called snow.

[Carey]

Climate Change Science is not all that new (almost 4 decades that I know of.... & I was on "the other side" of the science for most of that time, so my guess is the term is older....but that is only a guess.... heck it has been a college course for 2 decades now....)

OK, this is all making me feel WAYYY toooo old.....

and there still is no snow on Mauna Kea ....


ETA: Dennis, you may enjoy this.... if you work up on the mountain, you would need to have taken an OSHA snow shoveling course.... if there was any snow to shovel, which there isn't, just to be clear....

[dakine]

quote:

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Originally posted by Carey

and there still is no snow on Mauna Kea ....

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maybe if someone pours a really big concrete slab?

[rusty h]

here in the greatland, the last froniter weather is up and down like it has always been. this year we have had a low snowfall, in march we could have a ton dropped. normal IMHO

peace

[Adam79]

From what I can recall we only had one tiny dusting of snow on the very top this Winter and it seems like it was gone by that afternoon.

As for the bigger, much more sensitive issue....
Can't anybody agree that just like everything else, the truth probably lies in between the two extremes? Is it just me, or does it seem like everything in the news is only painted with one of two brushes: Conservative Republican Fox News-watching SUV-Driving gay-bashing Earth rapers, or Liberal Democrat "Make Love Not War" Al Gore-worshipping Cap-and-Trade-supporting hippies? I don't honestly believe that the majority of Americans fit into either one of those categories by a long shot, yet any time I pick up a newspaper or turn on the TV you'd swear that those are the only two flavors American citizens are made in. Can't I be an NRA member AND not oppose gay marriage AND reduce/reuse/recycle AND love to watch football AND listen to rap music AND refuse to register as a Democrat or Republican or any other party for that matter?

SCREEEEEEECCCHHHH!!!!! (thats the sound of a derailed train magically getting back on the tracks.....)

So um yeah Mauna kea... no snow. I have yet to fulfill my fantasy of snow boogie boarding in my shorts. I know it would be absolute misery but it would make one hell of a picture for a Christmas card to send back to family on the mainland

[Carey]

Adam, I would advise that you use a snowboard... not your shorts.... the lava rock outcroppings would shred your shorts..... that would be absolute misery.....

(oh & there was enough snow to plow this year, once.... even made some snowballs.... but still not much & not for very long.... the most it lasted was like, 2 weeks, tops, in the shade)

[TomK]

There were a couple of very small patches of snow on the summit a little more than a week ago, but I mean small. Often you find some snow lasts for months on the ground in the winter where direct sunlight can't get to. I'm not up until early next week so am not sure if those patches are still there - I'll have a look though. Last week I took a bunch of pictures and I've looked through them and no snow at all, but I wasn't in any of the places that are sheltered from sunlight.

Tom

[MarkP]

I don't know that it is happening yet, but there is evidence that in eons past the Gulf Stream, which carries heat from the equator up to the arctic, has stopped. When it has stopped, the arctic has gotten really, really cold, frozen over completely, and started a new ice age. The reasons that the Gulf Stream might stop include that warming of the earth releases inconceivably large quantities of fresh water into the arctic ocean where, being less dense that seawater, it DOESN'T sink and thereby the worldwide circulation stops. Don't worry, it always starts up again after a few thousand years.

I have never read anything about the equator getting similarly hot but it only stands to reason. The tropics would get really, really hot. Again, only temporarily. The massive white icecaps would soon (10,000 years) tip the balance back again.

Most of the climate change argument has centered on who is rocking the boat or how hard. Based on studies of ice cores it turns out that the bigger issue is that the boat is very tippy.

[Adam79]

Haha, thanks Carey. Make no mistake, I would not be doing actual boogie boarding up there! This will be purely a "photo op". I have no desire to freeze my you know what off by choice. Not to mention at that altitude walking 10 feet probably feels like jogging a mile. Do what we came there for, then bundle up and back in the car.

[mdd7000]

News just reported on, from the BBC, this weekend. Here is the short text from Fox News and at the bottom, is the link to the full interview from the BBC.

[url][/url]http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/15/global-warming-insignificant-years-admits-uks-climate-scientist/

Global Warming in Last 15 Years Insignificant, U.K.'s Top Climate Scientist Admits

The embattled ex-head of the research center at the heart of the Climate-gate scandal dropped a bombshell over the weekend, admitting in an interview with the BBC that there has been no global warming over the past 15 years.

The embattled ex-head of the research center at the heart of the Climate-gate scandal dropped a bombshell over the weekend, admitting in an interview with the BBC that there has been no global warming over the past 15 years.

Phil Jones, former head of the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia, made a number of eye-popping statements to the BBC's climate reporter on Sunday. Data from CRU, where Jones was the chief scientist, is key evidence behind the claim that the growth of cities (which are warmer than countryside) isn't a factor in global warming and was cited by the U.N.'s climate science body to bolster statements about rapid global warming in recent decades.

Jones's latest statements seemed to contradict the CRU's data.

In response to the question, "do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically significant global warming?", Jones said yes, adding that the average increase of 0.12C per year over that time period "is quite close to the significance level. Achieving statistical significance in scientific terms is much more likely for longer periods, and much less likely for shorter periods."

Jones is nevertheless 100% confident that the climate has warmed, he stated, admitting that the Climate-gate scandal has undermined public confidence in science. The scandal has worn down Jones as well: Since the e-mails emerged -- and were subsequently posted online at www.EastAngliaEmails.com -- Jones has stepped down from his position, been forced to admit that he “misjudged” the handling of requests for information, and even acknowledged contemplating suicide.

Jones also allowed for the possibility that the world as a whole was warmer in medieval times than it is today -- a concession that may also undermine theories that global warming is caused by man.

In addition, Jones admitted that an overall lack of organization, and his poor record keeping and office-tidying skills, had contributed to his reluctance to share data with critics, which he regretted.

"To say when you're the record keeper for the globe's temperature that you're not a good record keeper, well, that's going to come back to haunt you for a long, long time," Pat Michaels.of the Cato Institute, a public-policy think tank, told Fox News.

For more information, see the full interview at BBC News.

[url][/url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8511670.stm

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