Today

[Super8]

Bush was air guard during the Vietnam war. Cheney shouldn't be allowed near another firearm. Anyway, the point is moot. Memorial day is about honoring our fallen warriors, not the men who let others fight in their stead. Honor them, and their sacrifice. You may not understand why they did what they did, but don't make their day your political soapbox.

[8]

[Bullwinkle]

Our day - Aloha

[Frank]

quote:

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Originally posted by Super8

quote:

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Originally posted by Frank
...and if not "for freedom" why serve willingly?????

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So others won't have to. Honor. Duty. Service. Sacrifice. But you said it. Serve. Service to a cause greater than yourself. Less than 1% serve. It is a privilege to serve.

The freedom you speak of isn't the freedom to do whatever you want but the freedom to change the status quo. That is the civic duty. And the soldiers, airmen, seamen, marines, and coasties know that their sacrifices may be for naught if civilians don't selflessly participate in government. They also know they answer to civilians. The Congress declares war. The Congress are civilians. I served because I believe in the sentiments of 1775, the courage of 1776, and the respect of 1788. And because my family served for generations.

Attempting to honor draft dodgers on this day is in bad taste. You ought to have your ass kicked.

[8]

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The freedom you speak of isn't the freedom to do whatever you want but the freedom to change the status quo.

and i suggest that since the end of WW2 men and women have fought and died for something other than protecting the common US citizen's FREEDOM...status quo happens to be sending men and women to fight and die for something other than our FREEDOM (money, empire, come to mind) but not FREEDOM...i'm all in for changing the status quo

stand in line 8... you might get your chance at try'in to kick'in my ass...if your attempt at kick'in is about my FREEDOM, you best bring your lunch

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Frank

The freedom you speak of isn't the freedom to do whatever you want but the freedom to change the status quo.

and i suggest that since the end of WW2 men and women have fought and died for something other than protecting the common US citizen's FREEDOM...status quo happens to be sending men and women to fight and die for something other than our FREEDOM (money, empire, come to mind) but not FREEDOM...i'm all in for changing the status quo

stand in line 8... you might get your chance at try'in to kick'in my ass...if your attempt at kick'in is about my FREEDOM, you best bring your lunch

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I am sorry - but you seem to be blaming the dedicated men and women who voluntarily enter the armed services with that of the idiot politicians consistently elected to office who continually send these fine dedicated young men and women into senseless stupid wars.

[Frank]

you could not be further off base Ken... i'm NOT blaming the dedicated men and women who voluntarily enter the armed services

[snorkle]

I honor the brave Americans who stand up against illegal and irresponsible acts by politicians. I served in combat, I have earned the right to express my opinions. I also would like to think I fought for the rights of all Americans to express theirs.

Sorry Super8; You don't intimidate me.

[Super8]

Bullwinkle, you died in combat? Aloha

Frank, what about the Korean Conflict? Maybe go to South Korea. Freedom isn't an American privilege, it's God given human right and recognized in the Declaration as such. Your suggestion is insulting. You attempt to cheapen the sacrifice of people who died in your place by suggesting they were unaware of the reasons for their sacrifice. Maybe re read your history. http://www.infoplease.com/timelines/mili...tions.html I'm not saying our conflicts are beyond reproach, but in general we do what is right. In fact, re read the Declaration and see that it has always been the right and duty of the citizens of any country to establish and maintain their governance, whether lawfully allowed or not. Civil disobedience comes to mind. I don't really want to kick your ass, but anyone who wants to honor a draft dodger on Memorial day ought to get a boot to the ass, which is what I really meant. Why bring a lunch? Is the line that long?

Snorkle, thank you very much and sincerely for your service. Your service did not earn you the right to express your opinion, however. You have always had it. It does however, give your opinions more 'weight' as far as I'm concerned. I don't like the politicians either. For the most part, they are selfish, childish, inept, traitors. I honor the same people as you, but I can't honor someone who would send someone else off to fight in their place, which is what a draft dodger does. Therefore, honor the memory and sacrifice of those that did go and gave their last full measure. That's what the day is about.


[8]

[Bullwinkle]

....sadly enough - know way to many that did and some that are still dying 50 years later of agent orange

[pahoachick]

" ....sadly enough - know way to many that did and some that
are still dying 50 years later of agent orange"
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@Bullwinkle, thank you for posting this. I just lost my father 3 months ago to Parkinson's disease caused by Agent Orange exposure while he was in Vietnam. He returned in 1964, was active and vigorous until 2010, then went steadily downhill. He was unable to speak or do anything for himself for the last year of his life.

He served his country proudly for 30 years as an Army officer and never once complained about what happened to him at the end.

[Super8]

Pahoachick, very sorry to hear. Same for my pap pap. He's on his downhill slide now. Proud to have served and never heard him complain or regret. Confined to a lift bed and still bright and cheerful. LRRP's in Vietnam with the 25th ID, lived in Agent Orange. The VA does take decent care of him though. Only thing I've ever heard him say negatively was about the spittin' hippies.

[8]