separate laws for each race?

[ric]

I just don't get how someone can have the privilege of being an American, and still want or expect something more than that. Isn't being an American a blessing? I've been to alot of crappy places in the world that have a beauty of their own but still would find the prospect of having the freedom and opportunities of being American to be a great privilege, and ask nothing more. So apparently for some, it is not enough.

[rasman]

The so called "Akaka Bill" is racism because it will continue with the the same blood based race determination or quantum blood analysis to address an issue that is not one of ethnicity but nationality. There were numerous non-ethnic Hawaiians living as national citizens at the time of the illegal overthrow.

The "Akaka Bill" is a lame attempt at recognizing the inherent and what should be internationally recognized right of a nation to its own sovereignty. Most, if not all, Hawaiian sovereignty advocates and/or Hawaiian Kingdom members that I know oppose the bill.

A nation has no sovereign rights at all without the right to say who is and who is not a citizen.

I hate to sound negative, but knowing the U.S. Federal Government and its military, I don't foresee true justice coming from this issue anytime soon and the "Akaka" is just away for the feds to bring closure to the subject, at least in their eyes.

[Kapohocat]

I am not being sarcastic but rather curious...

Does this mean that we should be giving Alta California back to the Mexicans? Their loss occurred only 40 yrs before Hawaii's?

[missydog1]

Cat, clearly all the past wars of aggression cannot be undone. But as time has passed, a body of international law has developed governing the ways in which nations can "annex" other nations. Particularly sovereign nations that have established treaties with other nations and have been recognized as independent nations. From what I have read, the U.S. was at war when it annexed Hawai'i, specifically the Spanish American war, which was also fought in the Philippines. Hawai'i was neutral. It was against international law for the U.S. to grab a neutral nation in order to further its war effort.

When you ask about Alta California, Mexico ceded that land to the U.S. as part of a treaty.
http://www.militarymuseum.org/Hidalgo.html

An important difference with Hawai'i is that no treaty resigning sovereignty was ever signed of free will. Whatever Liliu'okalani signed was under duress when she was imprisoned. It was an unlawful overthrow of the government.

Another argument put forth is that the United States was obligated to give Hawai'i a choice whether to be self-governing under Article 73 of the United Nations. As a member of the United Nations, the United States had certain legal responsibilities towards Hawai'i. The vote in 1959 did not contain an option for Hawaiian independence, and this is argued to have been illegal, which makes the result of the vote invalid.

I think when people make all these arguments they forget about international law. Even WWI and WWII followed certain rules of law. War had to be declared. Surrender and armistice bring war to an end. International agreements govern the penalties and reparations for war. Most of us know that Switzerland was neutral and that its neutrality was something that other nations honored even during war. Well, Hawai'i was a neutral nation as well at the time of the coup. The U.S. didn't follow the rules with Hawai'i and unfortunately a lot of years passed where our government wasn't called on it, but that doesn't make the actions legal. There's no statute of limitations on it. It really is a problem. Those of us from the mainland were never taught this in school and I think it's a little hard to believe it. Presidents don't make formal apologies without a reason though.

[ric]

As an American, I don't feel guilty about it. Surely the islands would have met a worse fate if not for the USA.

[BobH]

This is a powerful thread and one of the best well thought out threads here since I became a member. There are some great thinkers in here and it seems that everyone has sound thinking in one form or another.

I live on an American Indian Reservation. Think about what I just said......”Indian Reservation”. It's the largest in the United States. How & why did it come about? Why is it still in existence?

Having lived with Indians for 8 years I can tell you that they still resent being conquered. And knowing a little about other native American Tribes, I surmise that every single tribe located on a reservation resent what happened to them back in the late 1800's after the "Indian Wars". (Wars where 1,000's of Native Americans died).

Being conquered by a superior power is devastating thing to any people. How those people view themselves afterwards is the key to their long term success. The American Indian has never been given the chance.

Can anyone here please tell me why there are still Indian Reservations? Why there is a Bureau of Indian Affairs? Why the "Indians" still need to be contained and controlled (by borders and monthly government checks?)

If Native Hawaiians had been treated the same way that their brothers on the mainland were treated, then perhaps there would have been a Hawaiian Native American Reservation and all Native Hawaiians would have been relocated to central Nevada or some other despicable place; left to fend for themselves the best that they could do, until such time as The United States Government set up welfare checks to keep them contained.


All I’m saying here is that Native Hawaiians suffered a better fate. And, still suffer a better fate. Yeah, they were conquered. Yeah, the United States Government did another bad thing. But it’s history now. And, if people think that they can roll back time and correct all misconceived deeds of Our Government in order to make it right for current and future generations then there is just not enough pot being grown on the BI and farmers better get to work.

Worldwide, humans conquer humans. Some of the conquered pull themselves back up afterwards and move on being better for the event. Others don’t and then wallow in self pity for generations. Others are never allowed to pull themselves back up and then become slaves to a nation. And, some like it because it allows them to wallow.

[critterlover]

To wax philosophical: the world is composed of differences in race, tribes, creed, religion, etc. It is my ignorance of the nuances of each who is different than myself that gives me pause or areas of discomfort I may feel directly related to my ignorance. I cannot be convinced that I shan't refer to my heritage with pride when topically germane because, though never in a shameful manner. Inherent in my particular family are the character and personality traits of that heritage. My prejudice for or against is based on my life's experience or my ignorance. Perhaps it is naive of me, but I cannot allow society to come along and erase my lineage/heritage with a wand of politically correct terminology nor would I want to; further, I would not want it for any other. I do not refer to someone derogatorily by their natural heritage but I understand, or conversely, recognize I do not understand them, based on my experience with their culture or etnic background. Somewhere between being bigoted and dis-allowance of personal opinion, there was a time when we 'embraced diversity'. It seems to have ebbed and crested quickly and in its wake a bland neutrality where we paint everything and everyone with the same brush. As for me and my household, I shall continue to embrace opportunity to learn about the differences and try to understand what I do not because of my ignorance.

Thank you for posting the link to the article. We shall see how it plays out in reality here in Hawaii. From my experience, some of the time a 'wait and see' attitude winds up being the best path to take in gaining insight to that which I have none. As this bill, if it passes, begins to be interpreted the motives of the folks most desirous of its implementation will soon enough be exposed. My hope: integrity will be the dominant attribute. I am not sure where those of us who currently reside here and have no Hawaiian blood will wind up as one processes this first step down to its logical conclusion, but I have come to know the speed with which anything is done on a governmental level makes the inch worm look like a road runner; so, whatever happens will likely be way after my time here. In my make believe world, there are no national borders and we are free to wander about getting to know cultures, peoples and places one on one, enriching our appreciation of diversity.

“A penny saved is a government oversight.”

[critterlover]

OMGoodness...I did not proof my posting..how horrible! Please forgive my punctuation in the second/third sentences..that was supposed to be comma not a period.. {{{{{{{{{{{mortified}}}}}}}}}}

“A penny saved is a government oversight.”

[Radiopeg]

[quote]Originally posted by Aliismc

"hmmmmm tragic the way happened. was it wrong what happened hell yes it was. can it be changed, of course not we can not change what was done unless you can change time."

And that is the only really fair way to deal with it, never do it in the first place. Let us all remember that we can not take back our daily actions. Hold our government accountable to do it right the first time. Yeah, I know, go live on a cloud, you're dreaming.

We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our
exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the
place for the first time.
-T.S. Eliot