Otter, so what if I didn't get bitten? I got chased on my own property by a charging growling barking dog very capable of causing severe injury. I have a right to be undisturbed on my own property.
There is no right to maintain a guard dog that can go off its own property to attack. A dog doesn't know where its property ends when there is no barrier, unless it has been taught, and that dog didn't know.
In the incident I mentioned, I did not set foot on the dog's territory and was minding my own business on MY land when it charged me. Sheesh.
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quote:
Originally posted by mailesomaha
I never, in my wildest dreams, would have imagined that she was in any danger at all on our property.
To think someone might hit her with their car and suffer a $50 fine if they didn't render aid is pretty laughable.
The roads in Eden Roc are "private property". Everyone who owns land here can "legally" have their dogs in the road and that's not breaking the law. Ask me how I know. There's 1,800 properties here. Alot of dogs in the street.
The dog in question was on their property. When a dog is laying or sitting on their own driveway they do not need to be leashed. They only need to be leashed if they go off the property.
Mailesomaha, If you are correct, then most of us live on private roads because most of Puna residences are within subdivisions, that would mean that not only Eden Rock, but all the other subdivisions.
HPP being the largest is about 4 miles by 3 miles with 11.000 residents on the latest census. Thus that is a lot of area where there are private roads that dogs can be unleashed.
This would also mean that the private roads in Obie's and Kapohocat's subdivision are private roads and if you are correct that means dogs don't legally have to be on leashes.
I know this subject came up before on punaweb in regards to private roads and private lands. I believe it is ok to walk your dog without a leash on Shipman property. since that is private property.
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There was a time, in very recent history, when police officers could enter onto our "private roads" with "public access" and NOT be able to issue a ticket for traffic infractions; broken tail light, out of date safety/registration and the like.
But, there was a law passed recently that gave them the ability to issue tickets on private property. A boat load of conservatives convinced a legislature or something; fried my neocortex when I witnessed it.
A similar law (trampling of my rights) would need to be passed.
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I don't know how to edit my previous post but I think I should clarify a part of it.
When I wrote "But, there was a law passed recently that gave them the ability to issue tickets on private property",
I meant ".....ability to issue tickets on ROADS DESIGNATED AS PRIVATE PROPERTY WITH PUBLIC ACCESS."
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omg...have I surpassed my alloted posts per day?
As is the case with Shipman, if I, being one person or one entity,
owned ALL of Eden Roc and I carved out the roads
as they are in this subdivision
then the County would not be able to designate the portion I carved
as roads as "Private Property with Public Access" because tenants in common law would not apply. I would not be required to share access to any land with a tenant in common who would have the need to allow access to their portion to their friends, family, delivery peeps or pharmaceutical representative.
NOTE; THE TENANTS IN COMMON LAW APPLIES ONLY TO THE ROADS, NOT THE INDIVIDUAL LOTS.
And, just to clarify, none of this applies to c's dog as as the dog was on it's own property and the incident was entirely the fault of the moron driving the vehicle.
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AND....I have only "heard" the County Planning Department and the Police Department and other rep's I've contacted use the term "private roads with public access." No one has been able to give me the Statue.
I imagine that they are imagining, in Eden Roc for example, 1,800 property owners with the need to allow an average of 10 different people access at one time or other during a year. Statistically speaking, there would be about a 3% disturbance rate (need/desire to enforce trespass) of 18,000 people which could be a potential 540 calls.
That would suck for the obviously stressed force; based on how they behave when I put in a call that my neighbor stole my other neighbors car.
Anyone know the "private property with public access" statute and, for giggles, why it doesn't apply to to "gated" communities.
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In regards to this: "I believe it is ok to walk your dog without a leash on Shipman property. since that is private property" I do not understand WHY people place someone else's land on different terms than their own land.
I would never think it is OK to do ANYTHING on property that belongs to someone else WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION....
I do know that Shipman LTD does give written permission to utilize their land for many things, & that they do have leased land, but they also have many ranching concerns on their lands, that may not be compatible with any & every body walking their animals off leash on Shipman property.
If you have permission from a landowner, then it is OK for you...and probably that land owner has specified that permission is limited in to you...
and if your dog is a female in season, or potentially dangerous, none of this applies, as the law covers that!
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Your dog is amazing, btw Carey. Sweet with a very old soul!
But, if orchidlands inflection or intonation read as..
I beeeeelievvvee? it's okayyyy to walk your dog on Shipman's property siiincccce that's private property...
in a more questioning/assuming...saying orchidland thinks they've given permission and therefore there's no law against it because it is not public property...
that's how I arranged it when I read it through the flat monotone black type on white background that is the internet
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quote:
Originally posted by Carey
So in this county, an animal that strays, as long as it is not a dog in season, or dangerous, is not too much of a worry to the writers of the County Code...which is the basis of the county laws.
Agreed, Carey.
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I live in an older part of Keaau, & most of my neighbors have worked, at least some part of their life, for Shipman LTD or one of their leasee's...
From what I gather from my neighbors, it has NEVER been OK to use the Shipman property without permission (lashings have been mentioned by some, by both the foremen & their (the neighbors as kids) folks of ol' yore -ETA these are folks that are now waaaayyy older than I am-)... I do know that permission is granted & I have done field work on their property through UH-H, and I gather, even from that, that it is not OK to go on their property without permission....
Think about it.... they have the liability of their employees, & the people who have requested permission to use their land, & the ranch animals, & their leasees rights, and their own ag interests....why on earth would they want the liability of anyone else on their property???
Esp. when you look at how some people have dumped garbage, cars. whiteware, etc. all about their property, and leave messes without cleaning up.... I think that they have made statements in the past & even have given visual clues (like the big boulders) that they do not want any & everyone traipsing about their property...
If you do use their property without their permission, then do not say it is OK to others, and try to leave it better, or at least the same, as when you entered.... that is the same you would expect of others to treat your property...
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