Public Meeting On “Dangerous and Vicious Dogs”

[ericlp]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jackson

Does anyone carry those small dispensers of mace? Spray a dog once in the eyes and he won't bother you again. May sound cruel but there is no permanent damage.
I love dogs but the problem I have is the ones around me are extremely friendly. Every time I go out for a walk after a shower and clean clothes, one of my canine buddies comes running up to say hi after swimming in a rain pond of mud or rolling in pig ****. They love to jump up and say hello with their tongue. The "angrier" dogs all seem to be behind fences. I guess this is one of the advantages of a close community.

---

Get the bear spray. Mace is illegal in Hawaii. Tho, I have a can of bear spray. I think that having a aluminum baseball bat would be better. Bats never run empty and are ready for any occasion at all times! You could probably kill a dog if one wanted so that the next person walking down the street won't have the same terrifying experience you did. Sad way to solve problems but I find fines don't work to neighbors that have aggressive dogs on the loose.

Don't get me wrong I love dogs, but my take is when they are aggressive enough to get in striking distance of a baseball bat and killing/injuring people something more drastic needs to change.

A family pet usually won't get that close to you and try to bite you. If so, you have serious issues with your dog that should be addressed or be put in a fenced yard permanently. Personally if I owned an aggressive dog and it got out and someone killed I wouldn't take it out on that person.

[Bullwinkle]

meanwhile the puppy mills on the BI keep churning out badly bred dogs as well as well meaning folks who do not get their chained "guard dogs" "fixed"

as to attacking dogs - a well placed nine iron solves the issue

sad issue all around

[Orchidlandguy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ericlp

quote:

---

Originally posted by jackson

Does anyone carry those small dispensers of mace? Spray a dog once in the eyes and he won't bother you again. May sound cruel but there is no permanent damage.

---

Get the bear spray. Mace is illegal in Hawaii. Tho, I have a can of bear spray.

---

Where do I get mace or bear spray?
I have heard wasp spray works well, but the can is huge.

[Jay Bondesen]

I'm not sure what is is, pepper spray I suppose, but at least a couple of shops carry small sprayers. One is the surplus store up from the Hilo farmers market.

Leilani is curently using a three tier response to loose dogs seen by the neighborhood watch group. Photos are taken and a copy of that along with a notice is posted at the location as well as mailed to that address and the owner if it is a rental property. The first time is a warning. The second time within 6 months is a $50.00 fine. The third time within a year is a $250.00 fine handled by our attorney and added to the fine will be attorney fees. If there is an active homeowners association these policies do have a legal standing and can become a lein against the property owner.


Jay

[TomK]

I don't suppose HPP has a similar policy to Leilani, does it?

Tom
http://apacificview.blogspot.com/

[Bullwinkle]

maybe if one brought the issue to the board they would....

- I'd even go out on a limb and add an obedience class requirement for violations - and hold them in the community center - obedience does so much more than train - it socializes the animal as well - teaches them how to act in a group

Tom k - try a few treats - most aggressive dogs acting out of fear - get passed that and the dogs may just keep an eye on your place for you while you are gone. A few cookies - and a big stick as insurance (keep it out of sight if they cower or panic) may be your best immediate option....

[the hare]

ericlp..sounds to me like you are afraid of dogs..and of course they smell fear and react....and if you killed my dog, i would react accordingly believe me

[MarkP]

That is a sentiment I have heard expressed before. Whenever I hear it the message seems to me to be that the dog owner reserves the right for his dog to threaten others, including possibly children, with death or mutilation, but denies others the right to kill his dog. Perhaps that is not what you intended to convey but it is a perfectly logical interpretation of the give and take so far in this thread. I don't know you, hare, and that is probably not the message you intended but it is the message that comes through. The sad fact is that there are those who do have that point of view. I consider them criminals.

[missydog1]

Tom, this is terrible what's going on with this dog! So sorry, wishing you the best.

Re the posts about retribution"

Might be good to take a look at Hawai'i laws before talking about killing any dog, or person! Here are the consolidated cruelty to animal laws from the HRS:
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stushist711_1109.htm

Here is the applicable statute relating to killing a dog.
¤ 711-1108.5 Cruelty to animals in the first degree.

(1) A person commits the offense of cruelty to animals in the first degree if the person intentionally or knowingly :

(a) Tortures, mutilates, or poisons or causes the torture, mutilation, or poisoning of any pet animal or equine animal resulting in serious bodily injury or death of the pet animal or equine animal; or

(b) Kills or attempts to kill any pet animal belonging to another person, without first obtaining legal authority or the consent of the pet animal's owner.

Cruelty to animals in the first degree is a Class C felony.

The defense of "necessity" aka "choice of evils" is found here:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent...3-0302.htm

It's a long section and there is no case law cited on killing a dog, but it is fairly clear that the danger of great bodily harm must be imminent and there must be no time to involve the law or other recourse, for this defense to fly.

For example, if the dog is attacking you, you do what you must.
However, if a dog has been aggressive to you but you are not in imminent danger, you cannot dispose of the animal simply because it's a menace and on your property. You have to call the authorities and/or the animal's owner.

Otherwise you can be prosecuted.
If you tell someone here that they should kill a dog, then you are advising them to break the law. There may be some states where you can kill a pet for coming on your property, but Hawai'i is not one of them.

If you want to break the law, that is your choice, am just posting this so that people can be aware of what the law states.

[the hare]

Mark I have now , and have before a German Shepherd, and they get a bad rap sometimes. My dog is from excellent , impressive bloodlines, and German Shepherds are about defending and not attacking,,,she grew up in Puna and we were attacked and I fought off 2 neighbor Pit bulls that would charge anytime we came close, my dog was still young and had no interest in fighting....anyway I have trained my dog well and she is calm and mellow, unless you come after my family or house....I'm just saying if someone killed her , especially out of fear and overreating, well i am a mellow dude, but would not be