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quote:
Originally posted by Carey
that is right, both were convicted of CRIMES...) but only received a slap (500 hours comm service) vs. the MAXIMUM SENTENCE THAT WOULD HAVE INCLUDED JAIL TIME & a hefty fine (that would have ended up costing each of the accused well more than $100k in lost time & fines....)
Unfortunately, transporting the deer was itself not a crime at the time, so they had to be charged under federal law. Also, FWIW, Hauptman's sentence of helicopter flying time to assist in eradication will cost him close to $500,000, much more than any direct fine that could have been imposed.
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quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
Yes, the hopeful outcome is Hawaii Island caught the spread of axis deer early enough to eradicate. The original gift to Molokai was around 9 axis deer. This estimate of 100 axis deer on the BI doesn't sound good, from supposedly around 8 brought in a couple years ago and something like 3 confirmed kills so far.
There is also the possibility that there have been multiple introductions. It's been rumored that people were keeping them for some time. A rancher I talked to in Kona claimed it was widely known that another rancher close to South Point was the one who had brought them over and let them go, but if that's true (and who knows if it is) it's separate from this instance.
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Law Violated:
The Lacey Act prohibits this type of transport.
Damage Estimate:
This type of wildlife has become a big problem on Maui and can cause $18 million a year in damage.
Maximum Penalty:
One year in jail and $10,000 in fines, instead they got a slap of 500 hours Community Service - the maximum sentence of a year in jail is over 2000 "working hours" OR OVER FOUR TIMES HIS COMMUNITY SERVICE TIME PLUS the addition of $10,000 IN FINES.... seems to me he got a really good deal, versus the maximum he could have gotten!!!
For an idea of the prolific nature of these deer, this was posted on this thread, but there are some that do not look back...
"4 male & 4 female axis deer were introduced to Molokai by KamahamahaV in 1868 and “by the turn of the century, most of the accessible forest on Moloka‘i had been destroyed (Griffith 1902). A report from 1904 (Hall) stated that “the only forest now remaining in the mountains of Moloka‘i is found at elevations above 1,500 feet at the east end of the island””
( http://hawaii.gov/dlnr/dofaw/forestry/FR...20file.pdf)
“On Molokai the population increased to 1000 within 20 years and reached perhaps 7500 before specific control measures were taken; hired hunters killed more than 3500 during 1900-1901 (Tomich 1986).”
HEAR deer link:
http://www.hear.org/AlienSpeciesInHawaii...isdeer.htm
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So. Carey, just what exactly are you suggesting besides using CAPS to get your point across. Do you think we should just start killing all the CONVICTED CRIMINALS, or perhaps open more prisons funded privately? Or funded by us tax payers. Anyways it's about deer. These convicted deer criminals, gotta watch out for them! Maybe we should just open up extensive deer rehab centers all throughout the Hawaiian islands...after all you don't want anyone to get any wrong ideas when it comes to deer! Perhaps just an entire change to our educations systems curriculum, more 'deer centric'.
CONVICTED DEER CRIMINALS GUYS! I need an adult!
Cheers
rainyjim
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RJ, You will probably never really get it... the Lacey Act is not about just the deer it is the reason WHY the deer were not to be brought & the deposition of the wildlife in land that was not owned by any of the involved parties......Mr Hauptman was convicted of violating the Lacey Act.
I have posted before that the re-fencing, agricultural losses & eradication should be shouldered ENTIRELY by the parties that caused the problem, and they shoulld not have begged for a lighter sentence, if they really were men who took responsibility for their action, but they are not... they pleaded for lighter sentences...
Now will they really do their community service time??? who knows!!! probably not
BTW it seems you so read the caps, but not the rest of this whole thread.... if you had, all I have asked for were that these men take responsibility for their actions, when they plea bargained, they proved that they did not want to take responsibility for their actions, and that is when I started calling them spoiled brats....
Why you go off into the weird land (who said anything about eradicating the spoiled brats, other than YOU!) is not my concern, my concern is that their actions has negated the actions of many volunteers & a whole lot of taxpayer money (both I have added to, so it is personal to me) to establish ungulate exclusion conservation areas....And your spoiled brat friends of friends of friends merely have to put in far less community service hours than most of the volunteer crews that have worked on the exclusion fencing....doesn't sound fair to me, nor does it sound like they are real men that take responsibility for their actions!
IF THEIR COMMUNITY SERVICE WAS EVEN CLOSE TO OR EXCEEDED THE POTENTIAL JAIL TIME (especially if it was on a fencing crew),THEN I WOULD SAY THAT THEY WERE ATTEMPTING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS.... (Oh, your estimate of 500 hours of community service is WAYYY off (est. value of comm. serv. time is just under $25/hour, you said " helicopter flying time to assist in eradication will cost him close to $500,000" - even if you think that his service is worth $1K per hour, I bet his "community service" time will not include free use of his equipment....or do you think helicopter pilots MAKE $1K/hr without their equipment???
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@Big Island
So, how was the hunt?
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
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Just saw this bumper sticker in Hilo-town, no joke:
quote:
AXIS DEER
MANAGEABLE SUSTAINABLE FOOD
SAY NO TO ERADICATION
It wasn't some sarcastic statement, the truck had other stickers on it with stuff like "HUNTA". If hunters have gone to the effort to make bumper stickers, then it is wonder what is going on in their heads? Do they really believe it is better for ecosystems to be destroyed and species to go extinct, for some randy game meat?
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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While we're on the subject of bumper stickers
Are those defend Hawaii stickers with the automatic rifle under it talking about defending Hawaii from our invasive ungulate pals - the furry axis?
Cheers
rainyjim
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The hunters don't believe that it is better that ecosystems be destroyed. They believe, wrongly, that the population of axis deer is manageable. They believe because they want to hunt, not because there is any rational basis for that belief.
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quote:
Originally posted by rainyjim
While we're on the subject of bumper stickers
Are those defend Hawaii stickers with the automatic rifle under it talking about defending Hawaii from our invasive ungulate pals - the furry axis?
No, it's a clothing/accessory seller. Basically, selling the logo for the sake of the logo.
http://shop.defendhawaii.com/
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