Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island

[pahoated]

Yeah, that is just part of the slogan. The full slogan is:

"DEFEND HAWAII (AGAINST INVASIVE SPECIES)"

That is the significance of the M-16, to be used against axis deer, moufon sheep, mountain goats, wild pig, feral cats and dogs, wild chickens, mongoose, myna birds, and coqui frogs and anything that even thinks about moving too quick.

What did you think it meant?

[rainyjim]

Well the coqui was a no brainer!

Cheers

rainyjim

[Bullwinkle]

Seems the cattle interests have another issue to deal with.... with 90% of the cows reproducing in an average year - there just is not any room for the axis deer on BI range land.....

seems to me regulation and co - ordination may be a better option than letting the cattle (self) interest drive the axis deer issue as well...

a little better husbandry and preventative testing of local herd may be an option. Penny wise pound foolish is how the article (and the cattle interests eradication of axis deer) reads to me......

"He said the Hawaii Cattleman’s Association isn’t doing much about the problem, either.

Attempts to reach the Hawaii Cattleman’s Association and Parker Ranch Thursday were unsuccessful."

http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/sections...sland.html

[Carey]

UMMM...

Did you know that there is already a FERAL CATTLE issue on this island (they are one of the destructive ungulates, and there are thousands on island...) - that is one of the reasons WHY the STD outbreak in ranch cattle is a headline worthy issue.... if it gets out in the feral population, there is no real way to control it...

The Axis Deer is not normally an open rangeland deer, it is a rainforest deer, more often inhabiting heavily forested river areas (ie, their preferences here would be within the gulches - not a place where many hunters LIKE to hunt, and really hard to FIND the deer - not like you would see them easily in a tree stand or such....and then there is the problem of getting out of the gulch area with your catch....it is very hard to find a hunter here willing to do this type of hunt.... check with J. Jeffries on how they tried to get hunters, but it was not something hunters here wanted..)

[Bullwinkle]

An axis deer in estrus tied to a post - no need to go into the canyons - thats how the imported hunters from new zealand do it.....

ranchers are responsible for the land - not this years profits to be sustainable imho.

Its about greed and return on investment - it always is in the U.S. imho. Out here in the hinterlands enforcement by the feds of our lands leased to ranchers may not be up to par as well - leading to short cuts and poor practices.

So have we been eating infected beef? Me I'd opt for a local disease free axis deer - grin

[rainyjim]

Out of curiosity if the axis's preferred hangout is in the aforementioned forested gulch areas that are apparently so difficult to get into that hunters don't even want to try, then what exactly is the issue? Can't they have their gulches? If they reproduce in large numbers and leave the gulch, then won't the hunters nab them then?

Really not trying to nag on you carey, just seems like what you said earlier kind of contradicts the big deal you were making about wrecking ecosystems.

Cheers

rainyjim

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by rainyjim

Out of curiosity if the axis's preferred hangout is in the aforementioned forested gulch areas that are apparently so difficult to get into that hunters don't even want to try, then what exactly is the issue? Can't they have their gulches? If they reproduce in large numbers and leave the gulch, then won't the hunters nab them then?

Really not trying to nag on you carey, just seems like what you said earlier kind of contradicts the big deal you were making about wrecking ecosystems.

Cheers

rainyjim

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That’s like asking what wrong with the coqui frogs chirping on the plants at Wal Mart?

They only have been chirping on the plants at Wal Mart since like around 2000.

But its only Wal Mart right?

[Midnight Rambler]

quote:

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Originally posted by rainyjim

Out of curiosity if the axis's preferred hangout is in the aforementioned forested gulch areas that are apparently so difficult to get into that hunters don't even want to try, then what exactly is the issue? Can't they have their gulches? If they reproduce in large numbers and leave the gulch, then won't the hunters nab them then?

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That's what they said on Maui in the 1970's - hey, it's been 15 years since the deer were introduced and there are still only a few hundred or so, and they stay in the gulches and waste lands, so they're no big deal, right?

Now there are tens of thousands of them - sometimes in herds of 50-100 at a time - and during dry times in particular they move out onto ranches and farms and eat everything.

I'm really not trying to nag on you, but do you ever think things through or look up what's already happened before you comment?

[rainyjim]

turns out I have these things called "school" and a "job" it really cuts into my browse through the Internet time, sorry for asking questions I don't know the answer to Midnight.

Cheers

rainyjim

[Carey]

RainyJim,
You responses make it sound more & more like you have never been in the wild (esp in the gulches) on island, and even not live here, maybe never even been here. You also do not understand the concept of maintaining & preserving biodiversity - a concept that is ingrained in some & way over the heads of others.... it is a concept like wind-row planting, terrain plowing, climate change that sounds silly to some, until their house & livelihood are gone, then they wonder why no one did anything about it....If you do live here, have ventured around the gulches, then yes, you are nagging, as your "what exactly is the issue" sounds more whiny responsible... the issue is that the state had determined that deer were not to be brought here & your friends, friends, friend Mr Hauptman FLY THEM HERE. You are trying to sound more informed than the state forestry personnel, but end up with the constant "why not" of a child. Many of your questions have been answered on this thread & you keep asking the same question... if you are so busy, why not leave the ecosystem to those who have the expertise?

Bullwinkle - as for the hunter tying up a female deer, only works during estrus & only on the males, meanwhile they keep BREEDING

Please, if you are on island, spend some of your time with the ones who have tried to re-establish the forest.

To give you a very rough & quick overview on the deer & gulch:

Our whole watershed is dependent on our mauka forests and our gulch systems. That is why Pinchot worked to establish the plantation Forestry divisions. Deer like to eat seedlings & low branches, as do most of the ungulates.

To protect & reestablish the native ecosystem, ungulate exclusion fences are protecting some of the remaining native forest, but the fences on this island were not designed to exclude an animal like the deer Raising miles of fence by one or two feet is a lot of taxpayer money, money that was deemed to be spent elsewhere, as the state had determined that DEER WERE NOT TO BE BROUGHT HERE

Thanks to your friend of a friend of a friend, they flew here!! ( if you do not understand the importance of forests for watersheds... well...I am positive you can do the research, there are volumes on just this island....)

The problem is that there is a very delicate balance in our ecosystem here.... IF the deer do "have the gulches" our watershed ecosystem could be totally thrown off - if you have been to an area where ungulates have taken over, you know what grows there, short grasses & unpalatable shrubs like gorse, with a few very old & damaged trees.

This type of landscape will increase erosion of the gulches, increasing ocean run-off, increasing water turbidity, Decreasing DO, decreasing corals.... some of this has happened in Maui, more in Molokai.... both of those islands have more weathered landscapes than here and have more resilience.