plastic bag ban unhealthy?

[coppercoin40]

@bananahead - especially since it takes so long to grow a tree big enough to make anything! I live in the Tongass National Rainforest where President Clinton stopped logging with the roadless act. It hurt Southeast communities that relied on pulp and lumber plants for the economy. When the local Chamber had a green ribbon campaign to support the logging industry I refused to participate. People say the Tongass is big enough with plenty of timber to log, I say we have taken enough from the planet.

[Rob Tucker]

Rainy, Relax on the sheeple stuff please. Other people can have other opinions without need for ridicule.

Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator

[dmbwest]

Thanks Rob,

I don't own a bag and not even remember 'till I'm 'right there' in line ... Carry out or pay the .05 ... BFD.

That said, who's to know if the person in front of you has different standards and thinks nothing of leaving cloth bag out on porch where rats, slugs etc. can check it out + neva wash? No matter, food going inside yeah ? LOL ... Still gets placed in common area @ market + poor baggers now have to handle something else thats probably not so sanitary.

Think about it ... Person on front of you leaves bag where ever and does god knows what with hands everyday ... This bag get placed on same area YOUR food ends up on and this same bag gets handled by the person loading your fresh veggies next.

And before anyone says it ... JUST >>> IMO ... There is still a big difference between this potential stuff introduced on reusables than whatever may end up on stores wagons/baskets day to day.

my .02
pog

[Guest]

I think this is a perfect idea!

And it even contains the proper safety warnings on its use!

http://www.norcalblogs.com/post_scripts/...bag-o.html

[coppercoin40]

Grocery carts gross me out! I try not to think about diapered teething babies that previously sat in the cart. I try not to look at the filth or think about them never getting a good disinfectant cleaning.

I forget my reusable bags in the truck more often than not and kick myself in the rear for it! My best case sceanrio would be to bag my own groceries in the reusable bags as I put the groceries in my cart. If I did that more often and requested that the groceries be rebagged in same bag after checking them through, then my bread wouldn't end up smooshed or eggs broken!

[Rob Tucker]

If you forget and leave the bags in the truck then simply roll the shopping cart out to the truck and load your bags. There is no requirement that bags be loaded at the checkout counter.

[Lee M-S]

you could bring a tarp to line your cart. And keep at least one bag in the front seat to remind you to take them into the store.

quote:

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Originally posted by coppercoin40

Grocery carts gross me out! I try not to think about diapered teething babies that previously sat in the cart. I try not to look at the filth or think about them never getting a good disinfectant cleaning.

I forget my reusable bags in the truck more often than not and kick myself in the rear for it! My best case sceanrio would be to bag my own groceries in the reusable bags as I put the groceries in my cart. If I did that more often and requested that the groceries be rebagged in same bag after checking them through, then my bread wouldn't end up smooshed or eggs broken!

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[punafish]

Good point Rob. We forget our bags for 2 reasons: 1) We're gettin' old and the memory is the 2nd thing to go (can't for the life of me remember the first and 2) It's a new situation so we haven't worked it into our routine yet. Eventually we'll come around and get in the habit of bringing our own bag.

As for the sanitary angle, the grocery carts are a great example. To which I'd add the following: did the guy who works in the produce department wash his hands after that restroom break? How about all the folks who fondle the produce before deciding which head of lettuce to buy? And we can't forget the cashier, how about her sanitary habits? All unknowns, out of our control. So the best we can do is wash our own hands, our reusable bags, along with that head of lettuce. Problem solved.

My point? We can find lots of excuses NOT to do whatever we don't want to do. But we tend to be selective in fitting the "logic" to whatever our agenda happens to be (including banning plastic bags while we continue a consumer lifestyle that does even more damage to the environment).

Is banning plastic bags a step in the right direction? Or just a smaller step in the wrong direction?

And can the "free market" find a better solution? I have my doubts, only because the premise of the free market (which really isn't "free") is short-term profits based on consumerism (the more the better), both notions completely counter to a sustainable lifestyle.

Ideally I'd support vendors selling plastic bags along with education. Always wondered if there's a niche in the market for a store that sells "unpackaged" goods (example: in sanitary bins, crates, barrels, whatever). I imagine that's how supply stores were back in the day. The draw would have to be reduced prices due to no packaging costs. Returnable bins (for example) could be bought and reused at the store. Might be a loopy idea, but would like to see someone try it one day. I'd shop there if the price was right!

As you can see I don't have any answers...but I've got no shortage of questions!

[rainyjim]

The CO-OP I shopped at growing up allowed us to bring sealable glass jars to fill with the bulk foods and meats.

This seems akin to the wagon full of wooden boxes and potato sacks.

Thinking of the looks you would get in Safeway or Kta if you brought in a lot of glass jars is hilarious - I'm sure you'd be treated somewhere between a criminal and an alien.

Puns fish there is a satire TV series called "portlandia" that pokes fun at hippies/hipsters/greenies and they have an episode on a natural food store that had no packaging. Quite a funny show. I think that specific episode is in season 2. Portlandia is on netflix if anyone cares.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by punafish

And can the "free market" find a better solution? I have my doubts, only because the premise of the free market (which really isn't "free") is short-term profits based on consumerism (the more the better), both notions completely counter to a sustainable lifestyle.

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I think you misunderstand what the "free market" is. The free market is something that has been working well for us for ten thousand years or more, it works great for nature too. It is free will and your ability to voluntarily trade with others, as opposed to you being told who and what you can trade with. This does not preclude education and wisdom, in fact it is built off of these things as you decide what is important. It is us individuals after all who choose to buy the goods and have them packed in plastic and our choice again if we choose to dispose of it in a way that hurts others or the environment. The free market involves free thinking individuals making decisions about their life to benefit themselves, it does not benefit to be ignorant or to cause damage, hurt others, or just generally destroy instead of creating.(All though creative destruction is important, but thats another lesson.) People need to realize this, realize that they are free and take control of there own lives.

Authoritarian control is just about the lowest form of interaction and in fact works to defeat intelligence, wisdom and free thinking individuals. It literally makes society as a whole worse off as people spend less and less time doing and thinking and more and more time following directions and entertaining lower brain function.

If you don't want plastic, don't get it. If you don't want to be fat, don't drink large sodas. If you think others are ignorant, educate them and persuade them to your position without force. Taking away freedom with control is not the solution and is probably the most short sighted, in fact backward outlook one could take.

“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul