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"For the sake of accuracy i have the the actual speech in classical english is"
"The verbatim quote is “disputable” I knew that before I posted it,"
"“petitor veritatis” one who seeks the truth"
More like an enemy of the truth. When confronted by it, you claim that truth is wrong and you are right.
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One again not to get entangled in semantics, every word was said by Mr Macaulay and the gist is true, there are many versions floating in the net, there was a series of lectures made by him during his visit to india which is in the indian govt archives, the quote is the abridged version from that series of lectures compiled by an indian Professor.
quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
"For the sake of accuracy i have the the actual speech in classical english is"
"The verbatim quote is “disputable” I knew that before I posted it,"
"“petitor veritatis” one who seeks the truth"
More like an enemy of the truth. When confronted by it, you claim that truth is wrong and you are right.
“petitor veritatis” one who seeks the truth
If anyone is trying to justify being disrespectful, cruel, mean, or harsh to anyone color or race, because they think anything from mother Earth, is THEIRS inherently, you need to evolve your soul.
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I have found if you give repect you get respect. Dont try to change this beautiful unique place into where you came from. Be curious and willing to learn about the culture of this (or any) place, but don't be a poser, like you know what its all about, but be humble. Celebrate the differences without disrespecting your self or others. Usually works,although there are ignorant people anywhere you go.
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It is not a question of semantics. Your quote is a lie.
You should read the link I posted:
http://historydetox.com/the-macaulay-fraud/
He never said that (the quote is less than 20 years old) nor does it represent the gist of his thinking at all.
Just admit you were mistaken and move on, that's what real "truth seekers" do.
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that quote really seems to bother paulW. who's to say if macaulay really said that or not? certainly not any of us. all you did, paulW, was present a website contradicting the quote. im sure there are hundreds of pages announcing it both as fact and others calling it fraud. why do you think YOUR sources are correct? because they align with YOUR beliefs? i'm sure even historians would disagree on whether or not that happened. but who cares either way? we all that's how colonialists think/thought, they were not running around colonizing the world because they loved their subjects and wanted them to flourish and be happy, it was and still is a matter of domination and greed. THEY are the thieves. it reminds me of present day with the iraq war and "bringing them freedom and democracy". come on, what a load of s***, and near everyone knows it now.
don't want to get too far off track. point is, whether or not he said it, it is a perfect example of the colonialist way of thinking summed up in one paragraph. beautifully done i say, fraud or not.
of course there will be little facts about periods in history that are in question, such as a speech given almost 200 years ago, and we may never know the truth. but what cannot be disputed is the bigger picture, in this case the evils of colonialism. i dont really care what an englishman said in a speech in 1835, just look at what our leaders today say, and then look at what they ACTUALLY think and the actions they take. lies upon lies....
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The history of race as a word is quite interesting. The modern version we use in the west in regards to skin color and racism comes directly from the colonial culture, imperialism, conquistadors and in turn slavery. Race as it is known in modern english was created by imperialists to justify the poor treatment and slaughtering of the indigenous cultures they were conquering. This applies directly to Hawaii which has been through a couple overthrows. So it is a stretch to imagine that perceived hostility from indigenous hawaiians would be racism. It is more a defense against racism and you know it works because Hawaiians are some of the most open minded on the globe as far as acceptance of differences goes. Being so isolated Hawaii got conquered late and the Hawaiians got to watch what happened with other colonies around the world and this could explain the defensive attitude around Hawaiian culture and the land.
Land ownership is another concept brought over by imperialism. Most indigenous cultures see the Earth as mother. The sky as father. The places from which we are born. Dust to Dust etc. etc. Indiginous cultures around the world were taken advantage of via the concept of land ownership. To indigenous cultures around the world the Earth owns you not the other way around. In the indigenous world view we here as a part of the big picture. The imperialist world view is to change or destroy the big picture and create a new one that benefits only the ones who can see nature as disposable.
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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln, inauguration speech, 1870.
Who's to say whether he said that or not? Well, as in Macaulay's case, the alleged speaker here was not in the stated location at the stated time and the words used are not ones that were in use at the time and they are not sentiments that the speaker mirrored in any of his other speeches. So it's pretty safe to say that this quote, like the one used earlier in this thread, is a load of crock.
There is only one reality.
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Indigenous cultures were extremely varied and prone to all the shortcomings any culture is prone to. Read Empire of the Summer Moon. It is about the Comanches. Don't know if they viewed the earth as mother and the sky as father. Don't care. Doesn't matter. If they caught anyone in their territory, they would literally skin them alive. The litany of sick and depraved acts of torture committed by the Comanches on their fellow man goes on and on They treated other Native American tribes this way before white folks became a factor,then they added white folks to their s**t list as they began appearing on Comanche land. Despite the fact that the cavalry sometimes rode out and killed innocent indians because they couldn't tell who was who there was always a pool of for example Apaches (those wusses) champing at the bit to lead the rather inept soldiers to the Comanches simply because the Comanches had so thoroughly earned the hatred of virtually everyone they had any contact with. And of this the Comanches were proud.
The concept of killing people to take their stuff has been alive and well in every corner of the world amongst every "race" of people throughout the history of man. Again using the Comnaches as an example, they had to move every couple of weeks as their horses grazed down the prairie. You're right, the idea of hunkering down on one patch of land was unthinkable to them but not because they were prepared to share it with others. It was because the land became useless to them (temporarily). But the idea that killing people over land was a concept brought by Europeans, either to the Americas or to Hawaii, is absolutely laughable.
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