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back on topic:
My point being that beef production is more harmful to the local land than axis deer will ever be. On this island the beef council seems to have convinced the senate its the other way around
http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/meat/review.pdf
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It's a Hoax fraudulently perpetuated for personal gains.
http://news.investors.com/101110-549990-...g-scam.htm
- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.
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Read the facts for yourself instead of assuming you know anything about the topic-
http://www.bing.com/search?q=ClimateGate+documents&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=climategate+documents&sc=1-21&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=9fcf2dd1a49547aea344f36468af8342
quote:
Originally posted by jackson
The UN????? Next you'll tell us about agenda 21. Denying climate change at this point is dangerous folly perpetuated by those who make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ from oil.
- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.
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can see why you need a fire arm - sleep well
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back to fact:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/weekinreview/27bittman.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
so how does this transfer to a rock in the pacific - producing meat for off island consumption? - reducing the range lands for other options?.... like people food (grain and vegetable) and heaven forbid pig and axis deer production
every thing in moderation a good pract1ce imho
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Are you willing to gamble the Islands natural forest on this? Cattle can be controlled even if released (free range), deer are not so easily controlled once free. The devastation that deer can cause has already been shown across the mainland USA. I don't see how the beef council has anything backwards.
Deer/venison ranching on the mainland is a whole different topic as the mainland has some natural predatory controls already in place, we have no natural predatory controls in place nor would they be wise to implement here if needed.
quote:
Originally posted by Bullwinkle
back on topic:
My point being that beef production is more harmful to the local land than axis deer will ever be. On this island the beef council seems to have convinced the senate its the other way around
http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/meat/review.pdf
- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.
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Beef producers do not own the land in Hawaii - it is leased largely from the feds
no one has a dog in the eco fight that is currently depleting OUR lands
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quote:
Originally posted by hereandthere
There are hunting families here that would gladly kill dear for food and enough to feed their families year round and their relatives too. That will never happen though....Public officials don't want weapons in Hawaii. Try get some here and you will know. The rules about carrying them, the specifics on where you can hunt, how you hunt, who you have to report to and on and on so that hunting here is a freaking drag.
A bill was introduced in the legislature last year that would have lifted most restrictions on bag limits and weapons allowed in hunting. It was shot down by intense lobbying - from the hunters' organizations. Despite their screeching whenever some remote piece of forest that's never hunted is fenced off, the goal of these groups (who I'm well aware don't really represent the majority of hunters, but who have the most political clout and will be the ones represented on the county's game commission) is not really to have more people hunting more animals. It's to have the populations kept as high as possible so they're available to be picked off.
Someone earlier mentioned having a deer hunting preserve on Kahoolawe. We already have one - it's called Lanai. Only a very few hunting permits are issued every year (I think 20?), and only for bucks. Unsurprisingly, the remaining "forest" on Lanai consists of only two teeny-tiny dryland patches surrounded by a ten-foot high fence, and a bit of mixed Cook pine and ohia at the summit.
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Bull- our island does have much more lease & land ownership than most counties/states...and much of the ranch land in this county is not fed owned...
Parker & Shipman own land (some of which they lease to other ranchers...) & the Bishop Estate is one of the larger land lease for ranching on this island...Pu`uWa`awa`a is state lease ranchland....
Most of the fed land on this island is either NP or PTA - & although PTA does have SOME ranchland...well,,, most of their land IS for live ammo training...not as conducive to "Happy Cows"
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Everywhere that deer exist in large numbers they are known to be a pest when not adequately controlled, at least to gardeners and farmers. That we should voluntarily opt into that experiment here where deer are not native and never existed before and where we have so many unique native plants in addition to those under cultivation is crazy and goes way beyond whether deer or cattle cause more harm. Cattle can't jump the fencing currently in use. For the deer, that fencing might as well not be there.
