Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island

[csgray]

Oneself,
The axis deer are not the same kind of deer as found on the mainland, they are a tropical species of deer that originated in India.

They are also prolific breeders that have no natural predators here and can jump vertically about twice as high as a mainland deer. No one here has fences that can keep them out of crops, gardens, or native wild lands. They would be a disaster for the last remnants of Hawaii's ecosystems, and for the agriculture industry here. Should our hard working farmers bear the price of hunters having a new prey to pursue for their trophy wall?

Carol

[Cagary]

quote:

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Originally posted by Oneself

This is a joke article right ?

Where im from, they have to limit the killing of deer in sseasons because they would be eradicated, you cant seriously argue that they are a threat ?

Just shoot them, they dont hide well.

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Was reading about the Great Depression and how one could walk for over a day into the forests that surrounded the cities in the Northeast and not find so much as a squirrel. Every animal from deer to rabbits had been shot for some family's dinner.

-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".

[rainyjim]

There really isn't much agriculture occuring at the present on the Big Island, furthermore what little agriculture is happening is almost entirely being shipped off island - thereby benefitting locals and the local economy in only the most indirect and limited of ways.

This makes the constant "hurt our farmers" mindset and argument seem quite sensational to me and innacurrate.

Akin to the "come here and want to change it" argument.

Both are applied often and liberally from issues ranging from axis deer to GMO.

I'm surprised at the huge amount of "caterwauling" going on - and will be resignedly forced to assume it is all from a well-meaning, albeit sometimes misconceived perception.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by csgray

Oneself,
The axis deer are not the same kind of deer as found on the mainland, they are a tropical species of deer that originated in India.

They are also prolific breeders that have no natural predators here and can jump vertically about twice as high as a mainland deer. No one here has fences that can keep them out of crops, gardens, or native wild lands. They would be a disaster for the last remnants of Hawaii's ecosystems, and for the agriculture industry here. Should our hard working farmers bear the price of hunters having a new prey to pursue for their trophy wall?

Carol

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Cagary hit the nail on the head.

If people hunt wild boar, I would think Venison would be a delight.

[csgray]

Rainyjim,
I have never voiced an opinion about GMOs here, so you should not make assumptions about what I think, or lump me in with anyone else just because you disagree with both me and them on separate issues.

The deer were illegally brought to the Big Island quite a while after I moved here, so how am I trying "come here and want to change it"? The people who brought the deer are the ones who decided to change things. Are you saying that the only people who can have an opinion about Hawaii Island are people who were born here? Or is there some magic number of years people have to cross, and then they can have an opinion about what happens here?

If the Axis deer get established no one will be able to afford to grow food commercially here on the Big Island, the fencing will be too expensive. Do you seriously want to let that happen because "There really isn't much agriculture occuring at the present on the Big Island, furthermore what little agriculture is happening is almost entirely being shipped off island - thereby benefitting locals and the local economy in only the most indirect and limited of ways. " Are you saying the people who grow food to be shipped off island are not "local" enough to deserve protection from a carelessly imported non-native herbivore with no natural predators, who will consider their crops a prime food source?

Encouraging real food self sufficiency is a good idea, but a voracious herbivore that only a small percentage of the population will hunt and eat doesn't seem like the way to go. I am not a knee jerk anti hunter, I grew up with kids who hunted every morning before school during deer season and had friends who paid for their cars and even college by running trap lines and digging ginseng. But the only time I ever saw my mother cry was when deer destroyed her 2 acre garden over the course of a week, she fed our family through the winter from that garden, and that year was the first time I remember eating store bought vegetables. Whatever the deer didn't eat they just trashed, my dad spent the winter doubling the height of the fence to 9 feet and electrifying the top, with mixed success.

Deer are a bad idea here, just look at how many pigs there are literally everywhere on this island, even with no season no limit hunting of pigs. Pigs can be controlled with low rock walls and low field fencing, these deer are incredible jumpers and require very high fences. Do you honestly think the hunters here will do a better job of keeping these deer under control than they do with pigs? Pig hunting is a big part of the culture here, but we still have no shortage of pigs. Deer hunting is not a part of the local culture, I don't see deer hunting being a big enough force to keep the deer population under control so they do no harm to people who want to grow food crops.

Carol

[rainyjim]

Hi Carol. And Aloha.

Notice I did not mention your name anywhere in my post.

That would be because it has nothing to do with you.

Those ideas, which may echo thoughts in a previous post of yours are standing by themselves with no connection to you.

I can see why you may have thought I was aiming that at you, but thats for everyone not just you.

Back at you on the assumptions.

[csgray]

RJ,
My questions for you in my post stand, whether you pointed your comments directly at me, or just in general. Do you really believe we should risk our ability to produce food on this island now, and in the future, because some hunters might want to add venison to their wild meat choices? There are pigs all over the place now, and the hunters aren't making much of a dent in the population, do they really just have to have another source of meat to survive? Once those deer are established it will be too late to eradicate them. Are you really willing to take the risk that the deer are as bad as some of us think they will be, because you think we MIGHT be wrong? The difference is this: if we are right, and you are wrong, agriculture and the last little bits of the precontact ecosystems are going to be severely impacted, if we are wrong and you are right, it is no big deal, life goes on the same, just with deer in the mix. That just seems like a heck of a gamble for a couple of guys with access to a helicopter to make for the entire island. Talk about wanting to change things!



Carol

[Forester]

Just a minor chime-in here, but for food self-sufficiency, it is far, far easier to grow plants than it is to chase after animals. I don't think you can use food self-sufficiency as an argument to support deer.

[seventhreads]

commercial agriculture will be impossible because fencing is too expensive?

hmmmm that's funny, lots of deer in california where i lived and strangely enough lots of agriculture too. deer fencing is not at all expensive, despite what some people on punaweb are trying to say. i've personally erected it many a times for my garden. you don't need electric fencing. that's b.s. in fact in my fence there was not even any metal. wooden posts, which i hammered into the ground, and plastic 7 ft high mesh attached (the thicker stuff). relatively cheap stuff. no deer EVER got through.

you know what will happen if deer end up living by the tens of thousands on the big island?

nothing. everyone will be just fine. and so will the crops.

[Wao nahele kane]

Seventhreads,
Hawaii has NO PREDATORY animals to keep deer in balance and has no large scale migratory range or true seasons.
The mainland had everything necessary for a balanced deer population as well as predatory animals though many have been eradicated and here's the result. So rather than comparing your Oranges in California to the Papaya of Hawaii... why not observe the facts instead?
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6835501/ns/us_...ationwide/


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