Sen Ruderman, where is the proof

[snorkle]

So if our Island's agricultural lands have been poisoned using Modern Chemistry, we need more modern chemistry to fix it?

Who would possibly profit from that?...............Oh wait, nevermind.

[Rob Tucker]

quote:

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Originally posted by snorkle

So if our Island's agricultural lands have been poisoned using Modern Chemistry, we need more modern chemistry to fix it?

Who would possibly profit from that?...............Oh wait, nevermind.

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A lot of our island farm lands have already been polluted with an organic poison - arsenic. The sugar plantations spread arsenic on the land to try and control a rat population explosion.

[Wao nahele kane]

http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_agricultu...yield.html
Just out of curiosity how does an individual derive taking agriculture back 7000 years because definitive safety testing is being sought on GM engineering? Talking about "comforting" a "self-validating" fantasy.

ETA: http://www.psrast.org/newgwohu.htm
http://www.psrast.org/nowohu.htm


- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.

[Wao nahele kane]

I keep hearing this mantra echoed from somewhere about GM foods increasing yields and promises to feed the world... can you show us present day proof that these previously held "theories" came to pass in the real world? I've been searching high and low for such claims to be validated under some form of scientific study but have not been able to find any, all I can find are scientific studies/reports that have concluded the opposite. The studies abound contrary to the initial theories but nothing recently available to support the claims when taken into full accountancy.

I can look back through the internet and pull up all the reports and begin posting them here with regard to actual GM crop production figures but the list of reports is too lengthy.
As an example here's one from Wisconsin and is just one of many that can be found around the world.
https://www.motherjones.com/files/maize_...h_2013.pdf

If you can please just show us ONE up to date report since say August of 2013 that concludes better crop yield productions of a GM I would be interested to read through it... thanks.

- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.

[snorkle]

Rob says: "A lot of our island farm lands have already been polluted with an organic poison - arsenic. The sugar plantations spread arsenic on the land to try and control a rat population explosion."

Excellent point Rob. Don't forget the ocean run-off as well.

So do we try and remediate the tainted lands? Write them off as unproductive? or spray more poisons on them?

[PaulW]

Does his utmost to stop GM farming and then complains that GM farming hasn't lived up to its promise.
It will, but it will take longer than necessary because of the scaremongering by the irrationalists.

One day pesticides will be a distant memory.

[Wao nahele kane]

PaulW,
Can you do anything but disjointedly critique what I am conveying? Do you have anything to share that has backing beyond your personal opinion?
In short, aside from trolling do you have anything relevant to share?

- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.

[PaulW]

There are decades of scientific research showing that GM is safe. It is the scientific consensus.
You want me to link to all of it? There's plenty already in this thread.

All major reputable organizations concerned with this matter are of (broadly) the same opinion.

What more do you want?? I'm just providing some counter-balance here to your fear of what you don't understand.

Trolling, you don't know what it means. It doesn't mean "stop disagreeing with me".

[Rob Tucker]

To grow any field crop successfully you will need to control weeds or as a farmer you will have a crop of worthless weeds.

You can do this (1) physically - by hand, (2) mechanically - by machinery, or (3) chemically - by use of herbicides which was followed by (4) GMO crops which could reduce the use of herbicides.

Each of these four have their positives and negatives.

The history is that (1) lost favor as the world turned from an agrarian/rural lifestyle to an industrial/urban lifestyle. Where one extended family had all members working in the fields. After WWII that number rapidly was reduced to one or two family members who turned to method (2) using gas and diesel powered tractors to cultivate. From the 1950's forward method (2) worked fairly well while the price of oil was cheap. Once the price of oil rose appreciably method (3) came into play. I saw it in our farming neighborhood as "no till" corn. Our family resisted it. "No till" meant no plowing, no cultivating. The surface growth was killed by herbicides and corn was planted by drill after the general herbicide killed the weeds. The planted corn basically got a head start over the weeds through harvest. Still a lot of weeds which were basically just shorter than the corn. So method (4) came in with corn genetically modified to resist the herbicide. This allowed more focused chemical treatment with less toxic chemicals. Each of these step, from 1 to 4, led to less labor, lower production costs and higher yields.

Unless we are to regress back to a heavy manual labor agriculture model, and thats not too likely as almost no one wants to work that hard or be that poor, we are going to be using a combination of mechanical and chemical cultivation. Mechanical uses lots and lots of petroleum and the chemical herbicides use lots and lots of chemicals.

Most promising might be if a fifth (5) method became available. Genetically modified crops which did not require weed control and could out perform the weeds on their own. This may be where GMO will take us. Don't know yet.

As for our arsenic tainted lands - no one is going to remediate them. Too much work, too much money, too much land. We will either accept the arsenic situation or be forced to clear the last of the virgin rainforest land we have. But to answer you last question as posed: We will use the tainted lands and spray more poison on them until such time as an improved (5) method comes along. Over time the toxicity of the poisons we use have been decreasing. Food production (and human population) has been increasing. Round-up is not DDT, Mirex or Kepone.

Are we living in a perfect world? We are not.

And none of the above gives any depth to the affects of climate change and the impact of that on agriculture. Changing patterns of flood and drought / migrating populations of insects and disease.

I consider GMO to be the lesser of available evils. The potential of GMO is huge. I don't see organic farming as offering more than a marginal and very expensive food supply to a very small part of a growing world population.

Just my opinion though...

[Opihikaobob]

Monsanto’s BT-Toxins Found to Kill Human Embryo Cells
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...3811000566

Many individuals have heard it a million times, but for the uninformed, or those just looking to fuel their 2014 fire to finally defeat Monsanto and their cronies, you’ll be interested to know that Monsanto’s Bt-toxin is far from ‘safe’ as the chemical company claimed it would be when filing their papers with the FDA. New research from Canada show that BT toxins are showing up in pregnant women, and low and behold – they are killing human embryo cells. 2014 is the year of the horse, but we’re not through beating this one to death.

It’s called reproductive toxicology, and just like their suicide seeds, these Bt toxins are starting to kill our own unborn children. This is no exaggeration. Hopefully reading further will compel you to take action. It is time to put Monsanto to rest, bankrupt them, and let the world know their ‘secrets’ near and far.

Bt toxins are prominent in genetically altered crops such as corn, soy, wheat, and others, called Cry1Ab – and they can be lethal. Not only do these cry-toxins target the kidney cells of developing human fetuses, but when Cry1Ab and Cry1Ac are combined with RoundUp, they can delay apoptosis of human cancer cells. What’s worse, glyphosate, the main ingredient in RoundUp, also causes necrosis – i.e. the death of human tissue, and this happens even when the substance is found in much smaller amounts than what is currently being used on our agricultural crops. The stuff is still carcinogenic in the parts per trillion range.

In its rush to remain the ‘agricultural leader’ of the world, the US government erected defunct regulatory bodies that have no means to truly examine the ramifications of biotechnology on our food. The National Institute of Health (NIH) is a joke and the FDA gave Monsanto an indefinite hall pass to cause mayhem on the food supply.

More people need to file lawsuits against this company until they are without one red cent to continue poisoning the planet and killing our unborn babies. The Organic Seed Grower’s Association sued Monsanto in 2011, and Idaho wheat growers are suing Monsanto for cross-contamination, but what about parental groups? Mother’s Against Drunk Driving was formed when a mom lost her baby to a drunk driver. Perhaps the mothers who face reproductive failure due to Monsanto’s hand can sue them collectively.

The FDA’s internal memos about their concerns surrounding GMO seed crops recently surfaced in one lawsuit, though the public was never meant to see them. GMO foods are not the foods we have always eaten. This is an outright lie.

Any lawyers out there willing to go against the monopoly? I’d sign a class action suit today. Would you? In the meantime, utilize these 5 tips for avoiding GMOs while you write your local senator, state representatives, congressman, and president.

www.nationofchange.org/monsanto-s-bt-toxins-found-kill-human-embryo-cells-1390666070