Little Fire Ant Treatment

[kalakoa]

Amdro bait stations in conjunction with the Tango

Supposedly this works best when alternated on a six-week cycle, this way the Tango has a chance to work its magic.

[Guest]

We have LFA because houseplant retailers wanted to shave a few bucks on the retail sale of ornamental tropical plants by ignoring local producers and sourcing potted plants dirt cheap in central America.

As I understand it, there is STILL no state prohibition on the import of potted plants. Of course, now they come with a little sticker that says how careful everyone is.

So I cannot help but wonder what the next imported vermin will be.

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You can't fix Samsara.

[1voyager1]

quote:

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Originally posted by kalakoa

Amdro bait stations in conjunction with the Tango

Supposedly this works best when alternated on a six-week cycle, this way the Tango has a chance to work its magic.

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I am curious as to what that supposition is based on.

[kalakoa]

Tango gets brought back to the colony by workers. Other poisons target the workers, leaving them understaffed for the Tango-ferrying job. Applying both types at the same time is thus counter-productive; I found the "six week" interval somewhere, possibly on these very forums, did not roll dice or use a hat trick.

[1voyager1]

quote:

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Originally posted by kalakoa

Tango gets brought back to the colony by workers. Other poisons target the workers, leaving them understaffed for the Tango-ferrying job. Applying both types at the same time is thus counter-productive; I found the "six week" interval somewhere, possibly on these very forums, did not roll dice or use a hat trick.

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The Amdro bait stations are a bait just as Tango is.
It is not a poison.
It does not kill the worker.
it is taken back to the nest.
now, the Amdro Ant Blocker is a poison and kills the worker.
I think you are demonstrating why the Antlab does not recommend using multiple bait types.
Baits and poisons are different and have different uses.
Amdro makes both.
But, the Amdro baits are not as effective through the long run as Tango.

[terracore]

The six week cycle is discussed here: http://www.littlefireants.com/lfa%20fact...et%202.pdf

Amdro does kill the workers, however it kills them slowly so they have a chance to take it back to the nest and poison others (hopefully the queens).

Siesta is ranked higher by the Hawaii Ant Lab than Amdro (it is actually rated the highest killer) because it remains attractive to ants after it gets wet which is important here. It is also considered to be 'non toxic' to humans and pets. I'll let the conspiracy theorists debunk that one but when my supply of Amdro Firestrike is exhausted I'll be switching to Siesta. It's available on Amazon and eBay, and I wouldn't doubt if BEI had it. I have not seen it in "regular" stores like Home Depot.

As far as "cycles" go, there is no reason to restrict using poison bait after the ants have taken the Tango back to the nest with the caveat below * Amdro Firestrike contains both the hydramethylnon slow killer plus s-methoprene, the ingredient in Tango, so it's the best of both worlds except that if you don't wait 6 weeks the ants may no longer take the Amdro. Before I knew this I was using the granules every week and didn't know why it quit working after awhile.

* Amdro takes several days to a few weeks to work, so timing is critical. If you kill off many of the workers right before your next Tango application, less of the Tango will find it's way to the nest. For this reason it is probably best to lay off the Amdro entirely for a few months until the Tango starts to work. Once the ant numbers are down you can use the Tango, and as soon as they get that to the nest, use Amdro or Siesta to kill the workers as a way of thanking them for ferrying the Tango to the queens.

[terracore]

Another thought on LFA.... the reason why we have to make our own poison concoctions like the Tango gel bait recipe is because (as far as I know) NO commercial product has ever been brought to market in the USA for use against LFA. The off-the-shelf fire ant products are made for "regular" fire ants. These are completely different species and the thing they have most in common is a painful sting. "regular" fire ants live in the ground, not trees, and the regulations for ground applications of poisons is vastly different than spraying in trees (read: trees where our food comes from).

Essentially, everything we are using against LFA should be considered "experimental" and maybe that is why nothing is very effective. I think the Hawaii Ant Lab is doing a pretty good job, but their funding is limited compared to a petrochemical corporation that could throw a billion dollars at the problem in hopes of recouping it 10x later. As far as I know, none of these companies are researching LFA specific products because the market isn't there yet, plus we continue purchasing their fire ant products that don't work very well against LFA (but they are better than nothing).

LFA can not move Amdro granules (the granules are several times larger than they are) and take them back to the nest. Instead, they bite down on the granules and suck the oil (and poison) out of them, and carry it back to the nest in whatever unholy organ they use as a stomach. Back at the nest they regurgitate for the juveniles and royalty. During my online research I did run across a technique used in Australia that involves adding a little soybean oil to the Amdro to make it easier for LFA to extract the poison, but it was just a mention and didn't include any scientific data. I have observed LFA and do occasionally see them carrying things, however they are so small I don't know what they are carrying. I do not know if they are carrying it back to the nest. One of the things I have considered is running poison bait granules though a food processor to decrease the size of the granules to an appropriate LFA size as an experiment to see if it makes it more effective or if they will carry it. And perhaps even adding something to them in the process. If I ever see a food processor at a garage sale for cheap I may consider it. It probably won't work... but then again, this is all just a huge experiment.

ETA: "Amdro" is a name brand. There are many Amdro products that do not work and are not labeled for use against regular fire ants. Home Depot sells an Amdro ant bait station that contains the same poison as their fire ant products, however it does not contain a fire ant bait and is 100% ineffective against both fire ants and LFA. Be sure to read the label. Amdro does not always = fire ant product.

[terracore]

quote:

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Originally posted by imagtek

We have LFA because houseplant retailers wanted to shave a few bucks on the retail sale of ornamental tropical plants by ignoring local producers and sourcing potted plants dirt cheap in central America.

As I understand it, there is STILL no state prohibition on the import of potted plants. Of course, now they come with a little sticker that says how careful everyone is.

So I cannot help but wonder what the next imported vermin will be.

---------------------------

You can't fix Samsara.

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I can't find the scientific reference right now, but I recall reading that the LFA imported to Hawaii came from Florida, but your point is well taken that LFA were imported to Florida from somewhere else, and that we wouldn't be in this mess if people used locally sourced products to begin with. Unfortunately now, you are less likely to bring LFA to your property if you buy something via Florida than via Puna.