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Interesting conversation. Many valid points are raised.
If our Hawaiian Kingdom/Nation does indeed exist in the opinion of the judges (all who have applicable jurisdiction), how do we find resolution?
After the Clinton apology, and the histrionics put forth for over one hundred years, what will the great United State of American offer the Hawaiian people in reparation? Big question.
In my dear Mother's opinion, and others of our ohana (Forefathers) who signed the Ku'e Petition, we adapted to the western world never forgetting our roots. We do not expect the USA to "deoccupy" or leave Hawai'i. We do hope that middle ground be found. Somewhere.
However, we are not a "tribe". With all due respect to our Native American Indian brothers and sisters, with whom we share many similarities within our respective cultures.
We are Hawaiian. Kanaka Maoli. This is our land. We need a voice in what happens heretofore. Within reason.
JMO.
ETA: "Nation" and "Kingdom" hold different status in the world. So, what are we? Another BIG question.
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"We do not expect the USA to "deoccupy" or leave Hawai'i."
Many of the protesters want exactly that !
Remove the observatories and the military bases.
Just leave the welfare offices !
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quote:
Originally posted by Obie
"We do not expect the USA to "deoccupy" or leave Hawai'i."
Many of the protesters want exactly that !
Remove the observatories and the military bases.
Just leave the welfare offices !
Therein lies the rub. Then what? Who protects (military) Hawai'i post USA? Where are the food stamps/cards and "benefits" going to come from? These are the questions that have no answers to date.
Some of our people strive for the days of old. Some of us tend to look at reality. FWIW.
Let the truth be known, in the "days of old" there was royalty and slaves. No "middle class". Further, most of this generation do not understand that they cannot collect "benefits" from USA, while claiming sovereign status.
Can't have it both ways. A'ole.
JMO.
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Thank you, dakine. Sorry if you felt you were in the hot seat, it wasn't my intention. I am extremely "anti-royal" if you understand what I mean and have no time for arguments from people who think some god chooses a country's king or queen (e.g., royalists in the UK).
It'll take me a little time to digest your post, but appreciate your time and effort spent writing it.
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They were edged out and marginalized by the technically (or at least physically) superior Polynesian people, and eventually disappeared as a separate population. Same thing that happens all over the world.
quote:
Originally posted by randomq
What about the Menehune?
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There are plenty of islands throughout the Pacific that are run by the locals. Are any of them Edens?
Hawaii got lucky. That's why so many of them want to come here and I don't blame them.
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
There are plenty of islands throughout the Pacific that are run by the locals. Are any of them Edens?
Hawaii got lucky. That's why so many of them want to come here and I don't blame them.
Precisely!
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
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quote:
With that said I'll try to articulate why I feel it is essential there be a Hawaiian Kingdom, organized and ran by Hawaiians, without any outside influences.
Been there, done that. It succumbed to a the new dog in town, as is the natural process of the better replacing the lesser.
They had their chance, and failed.
Going "backwards" is not Progress.
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
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A double edge mystery to be spoken/solved in time. What if the choosing was to toss the United States out? Who would try to edge in by another occupational takeover? Would all the "western" businesses shut down due to the fact that they may see the Kingdom as an "unstable" country, with no "established" credit history? Definitely all U.S. Benefits would cease, and military support from a Country that was just evicted to protect you from another outside influence would be questionable. Would "eastern" business be any better? (Look at their developments on the islands for their self greed, in this day and age, "West" or "East" are both guilty, IMHO). Would the U.S. Proclaim the Hawaiian Kingdom as a "tribe" as they did with Native Americans and deem if you want to live by Kingdom rule, then the reservation shall be on the existing lands the U.S. has previously set aside as homestead lands, and only Hawaiian Kingdom law applies within these boundaries?
My personal hope is that the Hawaiian Kingdom and the U.S. Can sit down and peacefully resolve the riff between the two "Nations" in that the Hawaiian people are finally recognized for their culture and their land, and that a written, concise description of Hawaiian Law be entered into the books for judicial reasons so that one can choose as to which rule to be tried on, without fear of "preferential" treatment by either "Kingdom". They should also agree upon land use and development, to slow big corporations from developing what little land is left, and the "Disneyfication" of tourist based businesses that ecologically destroy the islands with jet skis, cattlemaran (catamaran) boats that dump snorkelers into tiny marine sanctuaries (ie:Molokini) in a fashion that if one snorkelers turns, they all have to turn, and more than one has to pee in the pool be stopped, and more Eco tour based in nature in both the resorts and activities. Also make the resorts pay for infrastructure improvements such as road widening, sewage treatment plants, fire and police service expansions for the influx of the people they bring in. You want a resort? Give us a new treatment tank for your resorts waste, another fire truck to support your resort in an emergency, and sign here that you will not have parasailing or jet skis in the bay, and we can start negotiations!
Well, enough of my rant, and this is just another opinion on this hotbed of discussion.
Community begins with Aloha
