TMT groundbreaking - live

[snorkle]

Hello Dalai!

[Southernmost]

People without knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots - Marcus Garvey

Born&Raised Hawai'i Island

[Guest]

Well I do believe in the cause and further protection of what is and MAY be sacred again one day or for another 1,000 years, MaunaKea. Also believe in building a few countries or people up instead of always tearing or taking them down. The Hawaiian people or Hawaiian islands are always going to be worth protecting, so why not allow their sovernty? America was once a very new country that has emerged as a desirable place to live, work, or visit. Hawaii and its fewer and fewer % of Hawaiians is just being sold and exploited, sometimes by its own people. Promises, rulings, corrections, and plenty of healing needs to be acknowledged.
This is as important of a time and place to start being heard, as any in the Hawaiian history added to their islands school books in over 100 years. Both plenty of Awakenings and History can be found on the sacred mountain of MaunaKea right now, most importantly change is upon her and her growingly strong people. That is ofcourse if you are willing to see, feel, or listen with an open mind and heart.

[PunaMauka2]

"I can assure you that these gaps in mindset routinely create friction and discord in cross-cultural negotiations and relationships."

haven't checked in on these essentially 'leaning towards race-based entitlement trying to pass as cultural issues threads' in several days. whole lot of murky mire to wade around in, dakine leading the way.

above quote by punafish a good example of what i see as so common a fanciful exaggeration which can be fairly easy to slip by in many of these kinds of ...errr, discussions. these mindsets and cross-cultural negotiations and relationships claimed by the sovereignty activist oriented in Hawaii... seems in large part a romanticized figment of the imagination. seductive modern day identity fantasy. warm and fuzzy coupled with self righteous anger...who could resist.

[ironyak]

Originally posted by Punatic007
Who with any honorable and respected credentials finds this a worthy cause? Please enlighten me and tell us their rationale.

I thought snorkle did a good job out outlining some of the rationale in his Protector Talking Points earlier (not sure of his honorable or respected credentials though - it might all just be a setup for a punchline

snorkle - you used "we" so you appear to be directly involved, yet your points are centered around the idea that state and federal law applies and you did not mention the illegal occupation issue. As such, do you believe that there is a process to address these concerns that still allows for the TMT to be constructed on Mauna Kea?

[punafish]

Interesting how you interpreted that snippet, PM2. Nothing fanciful, I see these communication breakdowns all the time in the real word. (I also see resolutions.) The only point I'm making is that different mindsets get in the way of understanding, and sometimes discourages both sides from seeking common ground (or at the very least, civil discourse). But I said nothing about entitlements, sorry you took my words that way. I'm on the side of mutual understanding, empathy and communication, I have no other agenda.

@ironyak, appreciate your kind words. Sorry if I gave the impression of overextending the Japanese example (although I do stumble onto similarities between the cultures now and then). My point is of a much more general nature (i.e.; gaps in mindsets between cultures make cross-cultural engagements and communication infinitely more complicated). In the case of Hawaiian culture, I defer to the knowledgeable folks in this forum to help bridge those gaps.

[Punatic007]

Following the logic provided, I should go to Sweden, where my recent ancestors were forced out due to political reasons and demand something? One of the neighborhoods I lived in as a child is all black ghetto and a non-black dares not enter. I really don't like being cut off from my childhood and my roots, should I sue somebody over that or stage a protest? Does the past ever stop unravelling? No. Or can we put on our big boys and girls pants and realize that lots of people call this island home including a phenomenal astronomy community who benefit all of us greatly. Can we please show them some of this supposed aloha? Or is it all talk? Something that existed before this current generation.

[lavalava]

Kaho`olawe can be pointed at as the beginning of the Hawaiian cultural renaissance that created the drive to perserve the language. Perhaps this event can also be a catalyst for positivity. So far just a bunch of noise. We shall see.

[PunaMauka2]

my comment was intended to describe a wider trend related to the topic more than limited to being directed at yourself, punafish. that of over-romanticizing an imaginary ideal and perhaps you could say "anthropomorphizing" cultures as they may or may not have actually existed in the past. let's not pretend we are, in the present day here in Hawaii, dealing with so-called mindsets so alien and divided from each other anything remotely on par with some first contact event involving wooden ships with sails in waters uncharted to "them". let's get real... there will be no first and second class citizenry here based on genetic credentials. no forced mass exodus based on lineage. what would the criteria be? 100% lineage to be a decider? 50%? 1%? the reality, perhaps most evidently for lifelong inhabitants with extended families deeply rooted, is that there is pretty much just an us here now. for us such exotic divisive talk is somewhat laughable.

[PunaMauka2]

dakine, with your allusions to a policy of global racial segregation you are the one sounding more in line with such despicable right wing reactionaries.