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quote:
Originally posted by dakine
I don't think it would work for the whole planet without tremendous suffering, starvation, and war..
Right now with all the industrialization there is tremendous suffering, starvation, and war AND environmental degradation on a global scale
Even so, this is a rather plentiful and peaceful period of human history. Food is more affordable now than ever, and conflicts are more skirmishes than the world wars and conquests of the past.
I do agree on the environmental degredation, and I think global warming could destroy all of our progress. I think forcing responsibility on corporations and developing scientific solutions will be the way forward though. Any one nation or state trying to de-industrialize will not stop global warming, we all have to work together.
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John Locke >
Jean-Jacques Rousseau >>
Henry David Thoreau >>>
Mahatma Gandhi >>>>
Nelson Mandela >>>>>
Thank you ironyak. There is a thread winding to the present day. And they're big slippahs to fill.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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"We Are xxxxxx"
This sort of slogan or hashtag is used in response to terrorist attack.
Why is it now being used in response to the building of a telescope, after years of consultation?
Of all the things people could be protesting about! Social media is truly the weapon of choice of the
misinformed, uneducated and easily-manipulated.
The governor and the mayor should state their unequivocal support.
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Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
John Locke > Jean-Jacques Rousseau >> Henry David Thoreau >>> Mahatma Gandhi >>>> Nelson Mandela >>>>>
Thank you ironyak. There is a thread winding to the present day. And they're big slippahs to fill.
Agreed they are big slippahs and I haven't heard anyone speak about Mauna Kea with the depth or clarity of any of the voices above (although I have heard some intriguing echoes from some of the older members).
Of course the social changes based on the visionaries above were not created with just words from one person, but were brought about from many people putting on their normal sized slippahs and walking together, one step at a time. That is how these causes move forward.
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
"We Are xxxxxx"
This sort of slogan or hashtag is used in response to terrorist attack.
Why is it now being used in response to the building of a telescope, after years of consultation?
Of all the things people could be protesting about! Social media is truly the weapon of choice of the
misinformed, uneducated and easily-manipulated.
The governor and the mayor should state their unequivocal support.
This a very similar M.O. as the Ferguson debacle. The misinformed, uneducated and those simply needing a "cause" in their life used an evil thug, Michael Brown, as their focal point/poster boy. The result of the "protests"....pure destruction, nothing productive. Darren Wilson is a good, hard-working, honest, admirable, non-racist police officer forced to retire due to death threats. The destruction from the riots include deaths and damages of innocent businesses in millions if not billions. Yeah global protest of the ignorant, who don't take responsibility for their own lives and are so immature they need to blame others and destroy goodness all around them.
The amount of disrespect to the astronomy community is disturbing, as well as the disrespect to the vast majority of this democracy who graciously support and have welcomed them to the island with open arms.
We have a wonderful asset to offer the world...access to the heavens and beyond in conjunction with the observatories like never before. Any and all benevolent Gods of history would welcome this with open arms. This is the type of industry that raises us all up, education is key, without it we may as well be animals.
Shame.
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quote:
Originally posted by ironyak
- What is the operational status of the current 13 telescopes on Mauna Kea? What's your thoughts on the notion of decomissioning some to make way for new instruments like the TMT?
The elephant in the room is the expiring science reserve master lease, which is scheduled to happen in 2033. If the master lease is not extended, all the telescopes on Mauna Kea will be facing decommissioning between 2025-2033.
If the master lease is extended another 65 years, the current telescope operators will have the option of decommissioning, extending their lease, and extending their lease/upgrading their facilities. In short, there will be several telescopes facing decommissioning, several will extend their lease/ upgrade their facilities. The EIS preparation notice for the 65 year lease extension goes into great detail about this.
As it stands now, the Caltech Submillimeter Observatory is the only telescope facing decommissioning between 2016-2020.
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quote:
Originally posted by randomq
...Far from a teapublican, I'm a liberal that believes in protecting the land and preserving the unique lifestyles only available on this island. I just don't see the TMT affecting either of those.
quote:
Originally posted by randomq
I have read your posts and links, and I can see how people might feel differently. I just don't agree that those feelings should trump science or logical reasoning or democracy.
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randomq, each of your comments one of a shining light of down-to-earth reasonability here. appreciate how clearly and concisely you get right to a well thought-out point. a virtual explosion of fallacies in the air to contend with of late.
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Originally posted by PaulW
The governor and the mayor should state their unequivocal support.
You may be underestimating the political stakes involved.
http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsnow...t/nPite7IQ
Governor announces timeout extension of Thirty Meter Telescope construction
Apr 11, 2015 12:08 PM
Governor David Ige announced today, while in Hilo, that the Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) team has informed him it will postpone construction until Monday, April 20, 2015.
“I thank TMT for its willingness to be respectful and sensitive to all of Hawai'i – its special people, its sense of place and its unique host culture,” said Governor Ige.
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At the time of annexation, the former Crown lands were given ("ceded") to the US Federal Government. When Hawai#699;i became a U.S. state, the lands were transferred to the state. The federal act authorizing the transfer required that the lands be held in trust and that revenue from the land be used for five purposes: (These excerpts actually came from the Statehood Act 1959)
1. Support of public education
2. Betterment of the conditions of native Hawaiians as defined in the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act of 1920 (The Hawaiian Homes Commission Act 1920 did not exist in 1893)
3. Development of farm and home ownership
4. Public improvements
5. Provision of lands for public use
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So the question is snorkle, how are the funds currently spent? When someone rents time on a telescope and pays their fee, where does that money go?
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