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King Kalakaua:
“It will afford me unfeigned satisfaction if my kingdom can add its quota toward the successful accomplishment of the most important astronomical observation of the present century and assist, however humbly, the enlightened nations of the earth in these costly enterprises…”
-as quoted in the Pacific Commercial Advertiser, upon arrival of a British expedition of astronomers to Hawaii
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Punamauka2, wouldn't this be a great leading story in HTH?
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quote:
Originally posted by ironyak
Originally posted by OnoOno
Bulldoze the Luddites out of the way and keep the human experience moving FORWARD.
Rule: Don't feed the trolls
Quandary: What happens when they start feeding each other?
Sorry to nitpick but it's spelled with an e - humane experience, right?
Not as far as the Luddite's are concerned. In fact "human" is probably a bit of a stretch.
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wouldn't this be a great leading story in HTH?
Yes. HTH will run this story right after the TMT is built.
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quote:
Originally posted by gypsy69
JMO here. This TMT project really should not be happening on our island at all, or in this state period. This is the aloha state of Hawaii, we have tourists by the millions who spend millions to walk on our prestigious beaches and breath our fresh warm tropical air. Our wonderful people of this aina work very hard catering to this tourism industry. They sacrifice much of everything that is important to them to share this beautiful place with these visitors. Why should this thirty meter telescope be built near the summit of maunakea? How does this help tourism, or our keiki of tomorrow? Why do the Canadians, japanese, and many of the worlds others want to build this godzilla here? This would and could alter or change much of maunakea protectors past, present, and future.
Nature, Culture, and our islands aloha spirit VS big business, space, war, money, and D.C.
Location, location, location. You know, or should know, the rest. BTW, it is the same reason the other telescopes are there. Hawaii is part of the USA and has adopted, voluntarily, our culture. Part of that culture is pushing the human experience forward in all areas, including research. Some people, however, are against progress, and will throw any excuse the can find into play to try and stop or slow progress.
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Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
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quote:
Originally posted by ironyak
Morning Pam. Thanks for the insight on Tom's absence. His perspective is missed, especially on this topic, but one's health is of course far more important. Please pass along kind wishes for plenty of rest and a speedy recovery.
No doubt knowledge of the stars is deeply important to Hawaiian culture as evidenced by the numerous chants and stories, as well by contributions to astronomy such as King Kalakaua's role in supporting the 1874 Transit of Venus project that spanned the globe.
However, is it difficult to speculate that this one interest would trump other cultural concerns. Trying to guess the relative importance of these complex values, especially from the outside, is to presume an understanding that may be challenging to justify.
The TMT and Mauna Kea each posses a legacy from the past and a potential for the future; if there is a solution for how these intersect and balance out it's hopefully to be found in allowing each perspective to speak for itself and all sides trying to listen and understand.
IMHO of course.
The "concern" of increasing man's knowledge and understanding of the Universe and all the interactions therein is eternal and perennial.
"Cultural" concerns are transitory and short-lived. There is a new "culture" in town, and (thankfully) it values the collection of information via the scientific process more valuable than any trifling other importance that some tiny sliver of humanity may have in that piece of real-estate.
IF they are so concerned about that piece of real-estate, perhaps they could take a shovel-full away somewhere and build a shrine around it so they can pray to their dirt-gods at will.
Progress is critical, and trumps all.
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OnoOno,
Not all progress should get a greenlight without question, however this group of protesters has chosen a highly inappropriate cause, given the king of Hawaii felt strongly about furthering astronomy here. It's a little disconcerting just how ignorant these people are. Why don't they all move to Niihau? Or stop with the out of control racism, entitlement prejudices and wasting time of the productive members of society.
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quote:
Originally posted by Punatic007
OnoOno,
Not all progress should get a greenlight without question, however this group of protesters has chosen a highly inappropriate cause, given the last king of Hawaii felt strongly about furthering astronomy here. It's a little disconcerting just how ignorant these people are. Why don't they all move to Niihau? Or stop with the out of control racism, entitlement prejudices and wasting time of the productive members of society.
We are in concurrence.
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Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
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quote:
Originally posted by OnoOno
quote:
Originally posted by Punatic007
OnoOno,
Not all progress should get a greenlight without question, however this group of protesters has chosen a highly inappropriate cause, given the last king of Hawaii felt strongly about furthering astronomy here. It's a little disconcerting just how ignorant these people are. Why don't they all move to Niihau? Or stop with the out of control racism, entitlement prejudices and wasting time of the productive members of society.
We are in concurrence.
It is interesting to note that you have correctly observed that "protesters" have chosen an inappropriate "cause". It expresses correctly the fact that there are always people looking to throw wrenches in the working of progress, and adopt "causes" or "issues" as mere pretense to engage in that activity. Their true "cause" is the opposition of progress (I refer to them as "Luddites" knowing that term isn't completely appropriate).
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Ono - So Fast - So Tasty! (I intended to edit my earlier post, not to create a reply thereto. My "bad".
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Progress is critical, and trumps all.
Provably false: see also "development in Puna".
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quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
Progress is critical, and trumps all.
Provably false: see also "development in Puna".
Development in Puna is not what I would call "Progress", by-and-large.
Progress IS critical and TRUMPS all!!!!
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
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