county inspectors used for harassment

[kalakoa]

i do not have a gate to lock

This was your first mistake.

Inspectors generally stop at a closed gate unless they have police escort ... and the police don't get involved in permit issues unless there's a formal criminal complaint.

[birchl]

kalakoa, but if those requirements are only selectively enforced, and for the large part are ignored in favor of being able to sell these acres, and others like them, than that is not 'pretty clear'. all of them have been allowed to expand exponentially without county interference. at least half the homes on this estate (probably more) are not built to any sort of code at all. not just this estate, fern acres, fern forest, aloha estate, even HOVE and those estates. i have a building permit. there is no expiration date. there is no reference to county codes. there is no warning that one 'must start work within 120 day' etc. certainly there is nothing to say that one is subject to 'surprise inspections'.
and as for speculation, no it isn't. there would be no reason for someone to complain about my little cabin. it is 'tidy looking' and 'cute'. my property is well maintained. this is pure spite.


#10048;

[mmbvd7]

Wow. I mentioned this situation to friends that were over last night. Their impression was that you were targeted. This is an opinion.

I don't know what to think, except that if it were an inspection, they have an appointment with you. If a complaint, they can show up to investigate. On the mainland I had an experience with people doing plumbing work that I did not know required a permit. When we saw they were making more mistakes than correcting the situation, we called a plumber. That plumber called in the complaint on the workers. In turn, plumbing inspectors showed up, with complaint in hand, to catch the crooked workers on the job. I would guess that credentials need to be shown along with written complaint in hand from what I've read here. That is how it also happened elsewhere. JMO.

As someone mentioned it.....
I'm curious as to how many homes have had to be torn down in the past year or two for not being permitted.

Best wishes

[kalakoa]

if those requirements are only selectively enforced, and for the large part are ignored

This, right here, is exactly the problem I've been having.

I see (apparent) unpermittedness everywhere all the time, and very little actual enforcement. Obviously, these people are "following the rules" even though they are also "violating the code".

All I'm asking is that the "rules" be published, especially as they seem to be more important than the "code".

how many homes have had to be torn down in the past year or two for not being permitted

I think the answer is "zero", because you can (usually) work with County to correct the violations.

Seaview's House of Cards might have been the test case ... if it hadn't mysteriously burned to the ground.

Look at it this way: "correction" means fines, additional fees, and work for licensed contractors. "Torn down" means a reduction in property tax revenue...

[leilanidude]

i have a building permit. there is no expiration date. there is no reference to county codes. there is no warning that one 'must start work within 120 day' etc. certainly there is nothing to say that one is subject to 'surprise inspections'.
and as for speculation, no it isn't. there would be no reason for someone to complain about my little cabin. it is 'tidy looking' and 'cute'. my property is well maintained. this is pure spite.
----------
You have a building permit. Good for you. You are also supposed to follow all of the rules related to obtaining that permit, which does not mean it can stay open-ended for years. Just because you have a permit does not let you slide by for years without the finalizing of that permit.

[Tink]

Read Chapter 1 of the International Building Code, "Administration". It is often the most ignored chapter by the Building Inspector, but the most important. It details what Kalakoa has mentioned about length of times, but also enforcement procedures, work exempt, etc.. Second, get a copy of Hawaii County Building Code amendments as to what they have changed, and where. It will be like pulling teeth, but it is public information. They can make a Code ruling more restrictive, but not lax. It is up to the "owner builder" to know all the rules and bylaws pertaining to the codes as a contractor would, as there would be no room for all the "contract" obligations on the permit. Code book sections can be found online.
Edited for typos
Community begins with Aloha

[birchl]

actually leilani dude it apparently does...and WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?? as i have now said, more than once, the issue is not my permits, or lack thereof. the issue is that someone can use our building departments to intimidate and harass people. It should not be possible to use building inspectors to frighten people. Full stop.
I do not intend to ‘bring action’ (whatever that means) against the public works. The men involved were ‘just doing their jobs’. However I do intend to tackle the issue of using these departments to issue threats against the residents of these subdivisions. Since this is obviously possible to do than the procedures need seriously reviewing. A comprehensive policy for dealing with ‘homesteaders’ needs to be endlessly discussed by endless committees before men should be allowed to selectively enforce a set of sketchy, unknown rules.
If the county has decided to stop selling these estates as homesteads, and all that people assume from that title, than estate agents and the public need to be told of the new enforceable codes. Leilani for example has very strict guidelines that are written into the contracts. No such guidelines exist for most of these estates (especially this one!). Building permits carry no deadlines, few guidelines, no information on your rights or where to get that information, and certainly no indication that you may be held to sudden and unexpected visits.
These estates were deliberately built with little or no infrastructure. These unpermitted homes are sold, and advertised, and taxed, yet people can now literally be held to ransom? By the threat of building inspectors? People are quite genuinely frightened of them. And I am frightened by this. I am frightened of the escalation of it. That reasons will be found to justify it. I have already been warned not to upset them if I ever want to finalize.
It should be possible for the building departments to work with the Associations. We are informed of foreclosures, and sales, police activity, etc, etc, so why not building complaints? We may even be able to assist in ensuring that some standard is advised, and provide accurate information to residents; even investigates complaints to see if we, as a community, can assess issues ‘in house’ before wasting the building department's time. And what about the rules governing the ‘grading and bulldozing’ of entire lots? So that people with money can build their large permitted houses? or their pretend 'farms' and 'stables'? Is the destruction of the forest and the subsequent run off, in the name of ‘development’, going to be given the same attention? Are some codes more enforceable than others?


#10048;

[leilanidude]

quote:

---

Originally posted by birchl

actually leilani dude it apparently does...and WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?? as i have now said, more than once, the issue is not my permits, or lack thereof. the issue is that someone can use our building departments to intimidate and harass people. It should not be possible to use building inspectors to frighten people. Full stop.
I do not intend to ‘bring action’ (whatever that means) against the public works. The men involved were ‘just doing their jobs’. However I do intend to tackle the issue of using these departments to issue threats against the residents of these subdivisions. Since this is obviously possible to do than the procedures need seriously reviewing. A comprehensive policy for dealing with ‘homesteaders’ needs to be endlessly discussed by endless committees before men should be allowed to selectively enforce a set of sketchy, unknown rules.
If the county has decided to stop selling these estates as homesteads, and all that people assume from that title, than estate agents and the public need to be told of the new enforceable codes. Leilani for example has very strict guidelines that are written into the contracts. No such guidelines exist for most of these estates (especially this one!). Building permits carry no deadlines, few guidelines, no information on your rights or where to get that information, and certainly no indication that you may be held to sudden and unexpected visits.
These estates were deliberately built with little or no infrastructure. These unpermitted homes are sold, and advertised, and taxed, yet people can now literally be held to ransom? By the threat of building inspectors? People are quite genuinely frightened of them. And I am frightened by this. I am frightened of the escalation of it. That reasons will be found to justify it. I have already been warned not to upset them if I ever want to finalize.
It should be possible for the building departments to work with the Associations. We are informed of foreclosures, and sales, police activity, etc, etc, so why not building complaints? We may even be able to assist in ensuring that some standard is advised, and provide accurate information to residents; even investigates complaints to see if we, as a community, can assess issues ‘in house’ before wasting the building department's time. And what about the rules governing the ‘grading and bulldozing’ of entire lots? So that people with money can build their large permitted houses? or their pretend 'farms' and 'stables'? Is the destruction of the forest and the subsequent run off, in the name of ‘development’, going to be given the same attention? Are some codes more enforceable than others?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by birchl

actually leilani dude it apparently does...and WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?? as i have now said, more than once, the issue is not my permits, or lack thereof. the issue is that someone can use our building departments to intimidate and harass people. It should not be possible to use building inspectors to frighten people. Full stop.
I do not intend to ‘bring action’ (whatever that means) against the public works. The men involved were ‘just doing their jobs’. However I do intend to tackle the issue of using these departments to issue threats against the residents of these subdivisions. Since this is obviously possible to do than the procedures need seriously reviewing. A comprehensive policy for dealing with ‘homesteaders’ needs to be endlessly discussed by endless committees before men should be allowed to selectively enforce a set of sketchy, unknown rules.
If the county has decided to stop selling these estates as homesteads, and all that people assume from that title, than estate agents and the public need to be told of the new enforceable codes. Leilani for example has very strict guidelines that are written into the contracts. No such guidelines exist for most of these estates (especially this one!). Building permits carry no deadlines, few guidelines, no information on your rights or where to get that information, and certainly no indication that you may be held to sudden and unexpected visits.
These estates were deliberately built with little or no infrastructure. These unpermitted homes are sold, and advertised, and taxed, yet people can now literally be held to ransom? By the threat of building inspectors? People are quite genuinely frightened of them. And I am frightened by this. I am frightened of the escalation of it. That reasons will be found to justify it. I have already been warned not to upset them if I ever want to finalize.
It should be possible for the building departments to work with the Associations. We are informed of foreclosures, and sales, police activity, etc, etc, so why not building complaints? We may even be able to assist in ensuring that some standard is advised, and provide accurate information to residents; even investigates complaints to see if we, as a community, can assess issues ‘in house’ before wasting the building department's time. And what about the rules governing the ‘grading and bulldozing’ of entire lots? So that people with money can build their large permitted houses? or their pretend 'farms' and 'stables'? Is the destruction of the forest and the subsequent run off, in the name of ‘development’, going to be given the same attention? Are some codes more enforceable than others?

---

Your attitude, apparently, IS part of the problem as others have also noticed. You told the inspectors to "bugger off" (I assume that you used harsher language than that?) as well as telling us all how you shouted at them.

Associations do not need to work with the inspectors. People bought a piece of cheap land knowing that it had no infrastructure and have since refused to follow the county rules on what may or may not be built on their property.

Due to the lack of decent roads in the "private" subdivisions, the lengths at which people have gone to in order to hide their illegal structures, and the attitudes of some people in some subdivisions, I do not fault the County for not being able to keep on top of the building permit process.

Just go through the building forum on punaweb. How many posts are made by people who express a desire to move here and then claim that they will not be following the rules regarding building permits! It has gotten completely out of hand.


ps - You say you are a student at UH? Try to practice using sentences and paragraphs in your communications. It tends to be expected once you graduate and get out into the real world.

[2bad4u]

What on earth are you talking about ?! Noooo "it apparently does" NOT mean they will continue to let you slide for years. As seen by your recent visit. Property taxes, as of this year have been reassessed. Has it ever ocured to you that possibly this has something to do with your visit ? I know my neighbor and I both had a visit from an assessor. If assessors are randomly showing up at property's that are claimed vacant but are not, you think they would not contact the building dept.? I don't think they like tax cheets anymore than they do a blantant disregard for building codes. I also seriously doubt this has anything what so ever to do with H.A. association or you being on the board. Personally I think you feel that the rules shouldn't or don't apply to you for some reason. Here's more than likely what happened: your property was randomly visited by an assessor who noticed that although the property was assessed as vacant land, it wasn't. Oh looks like someone lives on it. Not good. Contact building dept. No final permits. Do you honestly think they would visit not knowing what you do and don't have ? Rediclious ! That's why they showed up I'll bet They were well aware you had no finals. Are they sopose to take your word for your structor being to code ? Fat chance. Its not a conspiracy, its not a vendetta. You failed to comply with county regulation and got caught. If I were you the next thing I would be worried about is being accused of tax evasion.You need to stop blaming everyone and everything. clean up you mess. You caused it, and...bull if you say one more time "its not about the permitts". Oh yes it is. P.S. I will bet lalani duds problem is the same as mine. Way to much b.s.

[leilanidude]

2bad4u brings up a good point. Until finaled, you cannot legally live IN the structure, which you freely admitted to doing.