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dakine said: "Those that must say disparaging things about her, rather than allow her the time and space to work out her concerns, bring shame to us all."
...followed by:
"One person's personal judgment of another has nothing to do with that person's right to seek solutions to their concerns. To imply as much suggests a lack of understanding of the American legal system and the rights afford all US citizens by our constitution. And civil disobedience is one of those rights. Those rights are not exclusive to one or another group but held by all."
What on earth are you going on about here. Nonsense. Are you suggesting that the words and actions of these particular protestors are above analysis and criticism from the rest of the public? Such critical comment is a violation of their constitutional rights?? Nuts. And again, quite melodramatic. You seem to have a thing for these twisted and hypocritical ideas about limiting speech as it pertains to the law.
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"One person's personal judgment of another has nothing to do with that person's right to seek solutions to their concerns. To imply as much suggests a lack of understanding of the American legal system and the rights afford all US citizens by our constitution. And civil disobedience is one of those rights. Those rights are not exclusive to one or another group but held by all."
This is so bizarre. It was you that said disparaging remarks somehow didn't "allow her the time and space to work out her concerns". How does that work? How about those subject to her disparaging remarks? Don't those same rights exist for those posting "disparaging remarks" on both sides of the argument? Am I not allowed to point out some of her contradictory statements and behavior?
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I keep going back to this :
"capitulate to Corporate greed. So sad ...really Auwe!!! "
Where is there corporate greed in the building of scientific instrument that can benefit all mankind ?
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quote:
Originally posted by dakine
And civil disobedience is one of those rights. Those rights are not exclusive to one or another group but held by all.
I'm far from a constitutional expert, being foreign and all, but I'm pretty sure civil disobedience is not a right supported by law at all, and in fact is by definition a breach of the law. The recent issue on the mainland with leased public land and an armed stand off resulting in a shootout, death and imprisonment should stand as an example of civil disobedience resulting in a bad end. Not to say that civil disobedience is inherently wrong, just not a 'right'. Ghandi served jail time for his civil disobedience, despite being non-violent. Protestors were shot at Kent State for civil disobedience in 1970.
Blocking a road without permission is against the law. Authorities may enforce that law or attempt to negotiate a settlement.
Just call me Mike
Me ka ha`aha`a,
Mike
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I'm pretty sure civil disobedience is not a right supported by law at all
I'd second that observation.
Can you imagine a groups of slaves in 1850 refusing to work, and engaging in civil disobedience?
"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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Quote VI;
"I'm far from a constitutional expert, being foreign and all, but I'm pretty sure civil disobedience is not a right supported by law at all, and in fact is by definition a breach of the law."
HOTPE;"
Can you imagine a groups of slaves in 1850 refusing to work, and engaging in civil disobedience?"
_____________________________________________________________________
Yeah HOTPE and Vancouver dude;
How about those pesky colored folks? and what about them illegally sitting in the white area, or thinking they can ride in the front of the bus? Or voting? You can bet they don't put up with those kind of shenanigans in Canada or on the Primal Edge.[
](not laughing
with you)
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You can bet they don't put up with those kind of shenanigans in Canada or on the Primal Edge.(not laughing with you)
My comment was not about civil disobedience, it was about whether civil disobedience is a constitutional right.
"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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Civil disobedience by it's very nature obviously runs contrary to law. Though, especially in more contemporary times among more progressive open societies, instances which are generally accepted as being characteristic of civil disobedience may be met with more restraint than other more typical unlawful behavior. One reason being that a crushing authoritarian reaction by law enforcement in such cases may easily do more harm than good in terms of a government's position in resolving an issue, not to mention an excessively authoritarian response generally not being the best fit in a free and open society.
Actually, what exactly constitutes civil disobedience versus general unlawfullness gets very murky and can be highly contentious. You will find there are many disputed categories and subcategories. I think often the final verdict of what qualifies may come towards a culmination or after the fact by the public at large if enough momentum is gained.
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quote:
Originally posted by PunaMauka2
Actually, what exactly constitutes civil disobedience versus general unlawfullness gets very murky and can be highly contentious.
I don't know. It would seem to me that the HRS is pretty clear about it.
ยง124A-129 Mutiny or sedition. (a) Any person subject to this chapter who:
...
(2) With intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or other disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition;
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Saints, I'm unsure why you posted a law specifically detailing mutiny and sedition. Are you suggesting that all instances considered to be civil disobedience fall under that category?
Also, I didn't make the claim you seem to be implying I had. I never said that all claims of unlawful activity being a form of civil disobedience are equally contentious (or valid). Quite the contrary. What exactly qualifies as civil disobedience by definition is indeed often debated. Obviously that doesn't mean there are many cases where unlawful activity can be excluded as qualifying as a form of civil disobedience more easily than others.
