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Even if the tenet does not know at the time, when you go to evict, you create a potentially hostile environment & the law will not back you unless you have strictly followed the letter of the landlord/tenet code. If you look at some of the actions that could be taken against the landlord, they include owing the tenet up to the VALUE of 2 months rent plus legal fees...
The renter/tenet (or the one who who could be displaced from their housing) is, in most states, the one that has the benefit of the law & Hawaii has some of the strongest tenet laws in the nation.
If you notice the number of links I posted, most are targeted to the tenet (i.e. UH-Hio housing office). There are a number of resources available for a renter to seek grievances.
As the current tenet is reluctant to leave & is saying they have no housing options, it might be worthwhile to look at buying out or mediation.... Many may think this is totally unfair, but that is the way of landlord/tenet laws. When most of these laws were drafted, landlords had a habit of forcible eviction of tenets with no merit or notice. the tenets were left with no recourse, creating the need for defined laws...
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perhaps you should contact AARP which has some legal advise, or i am sure there is an elder abuse ombudsman with the county? I would start there, particularly with a 93 year old 'landlord'
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The law views the old lady as a greedy landlord, exploiting the poor tenant.
...
Hawaii has some of the strongest tenet laws in the nation.
Yes, it's how the State of Hawaii keeps the homeless situation from getting any worse. Make the 93 year old ladies provide room and board for people who won't move because "says she can't find another place."
For free.
No fathers or mothers think their own children ugly; and this self-deceit is yet stronger with respect to the offspring of the mind. -Miguel de Cervantes, novelist (1547-1616)
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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I think I may know who this is. Can her son help out with this?
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Without a written rental/barter agreement, in this type of situation I would tell her she was simply a guest who has overstayed her visit and is starting to engage in the criminal behavior of elder abuse of taking advantage of her. If she didn't move her things I would move them for her, then change the lock and threaten to report her to the police. Nowhere to go? Go to the shelter in Hilo now, not tomorrow out now. Easy. Even if she had an audio recording of a barter agreement we don't know about it, 93 yr olds are often known for completely forgetting things or perhaps she was coerced, oh the charges are mounting. Bye.
93 yr olds are fragile, be tough and protect her.
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Punatic, the problem with what you suggest is the she DID check references & did not, most likely, make it very obvious that it was a guest situation....
We have guest accommodations for decades, in Illinois & here,/ We started when our former company needed housing for interns, & even in Illinois the tenet has many rights. Our old company made sure that everyone agreeing to allow interns to stay realized the legal distinction between guest housing & establishing tenancy.
One of the big ones is that you make it very clear that the is NO LEGAL TENANCY formed when a guest stays (our guest studio has signages in all of the rooms, in drawers, & in the bathroom... these signs were holdovers from our old house in Illinois...
There is an additional part here in Hawaii... guests in Hawaii are normally viewed as very short-term... so even an intern, staying more than a month, with plenty of signage & paying no rent, with no expectation of rent or work-trade, can be seen, in the eyes of Hawaii code as a tenet (
Again, the possibility of having a persons` housing removed is looked at as a very SERIOUS issue & should not be treated lightly.
As to elder abuse, it may be very hard for her to prove, esp. if she showed the competence to check references & interview this person... She must have a well documented case as to the lack of services that had been agreed on, have given all of the notices needed, all the time this tenet has the option to re-start service & the landlord cannot keep them from performing them (at this point, it may be that there is not a positive relationship between the two, and the tenant can claim that the landlord is making a hostile environment & could even state that the landlord is changing the original terms of tenancy without proper notice...
Hate to be the continued bearer of this news, but we have dealt with these issues in 2 states over 3 decades, and the tenancy is a tough thing to revoke...
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Maybe have some muscle, find a few friends to show up and stick it to her, then help her move her crap out while changing the locks soon after.
Let her call the cops, let her take you to court...etc...etc....
This is all heresay, yes, a verbal contract is enforceable, but it would be on her to take her to court and prove it. Her word against her word...Good luck with that!
Find a few big dudes (friends) that can help in this situation.
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quote:
Originally posted by Carey
Punatic, the problem with what you suggest is the she DID check references & did not, most likely, make it very obvious that it was a guest situation....
We have guest accommodations for decades, in Illinois & here,/ We started when our former company needed housing for interns, & even in Illinois the tenet has many rights. Our old company made sure that everyone agreeing to allow interns to stay realized the legal distinction between guest housing & establishing tenancy.
One of the big ones is that you make it very clear that the is NO LEGAL TENANCY formed when a guest stays (our guest studio has signages in all of the rooms, in drawers, & in the bathroom... these signs were holdovers from our old house in Illinois...
There is an additional part here in Hawaii... guests in Hawaii are normally viewed as very short-term... so even an intern, staying more than a month, with plenty of signage & paying no rent, with no expectation of rent or work-trade, can be seen, in the eyes of Hawaii code as a tenet (
Again, the possibility of having a persons` housing removed is looked at as a very SERIOUS issue & should not be treated lightly.
As to elder abuse, it may be very hard for her to prove, esp. if she showed the competence to check references & interview this person... She must have a well documented case as to the lack of services that had been agreed on, have given all of the notices needed, all the time this tenet has the option to re-start service & the landlord cannot keep them from performing them (at this point, it may be that there is not a positive relationship between the two, and the tenant can claim that the landlord is making a hostile environment & could even state that the landlord is changing the original terms of tenancy without proper notice...
Hate to be the continued bearer of this news, but we have dealt with these issues in 2 states over 3 decades, and the tenancy is a tough thing to revoke...
Not having a written agreement makes it a very hard point to prove to police or court. In this case going the long and arduous legal route may be too much for the 93 yr old. I'd take the chance to let her call my bluff to protect an elder or child in my sphere.
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IF references WERE checked, it is NOT heresay!
The tenant most likely would KNOW the references & have their word also, putting the landowner in a VERY expensive place if she does NOT FOLLOW THE CODE....
Advocating the use of force in this issue would be very un-wise, as this would further the case of the "aggrieved" (the tenant)
I know everyone here is thinking this is totally unfair & BS to have to do, but that is what it is...
Punatic, actually NOT having a written agreement is very common in landlord tenant interactions.... if you know of anyone who has staid in their rental longer than the lease, they are in a verbal tenancy (i.e.. the day after the lease expires, there is no longer a legal WRITTEN contract, & the code looks at that as a verbal month to month... which is how they look at ANY arrangement where someone is living in a place owned by another... unless there is something WRITTEN to state otherwise....ETA:I have supplied the code... read it if you think you can find another way! )
I really know most everyone thinking about this thinks what I am writing is total BS.... but having dealt with this for decades, I can only advise someone in this scenario to follow the code (or trying to `buy-out` the tenant), bringing in force will only make matter much worse
ETA2: some of you may wonder just how much this COULD end up costing, esp. if the tenant is really POed...
1. In a work-lease AGREEMENT, the landowner is required to report the value of the work as income (just like receiving cash rent) + GET, & possibly TAT
2. if the work agreement involves work that is not classified as `independent contractor type work`, in Hawaii the landowner could also have to comply with Hawaii work rules (this is not in stone, but has been enforced in Hawaii & other states....if it involves 20 or more hours per week, I think many here can see some real $$ starting to add up)
3. all of the code requirements, which are up to 2 months rent money (even though this was a work trade) and attorney fees
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Carey is right.
I knew a couple on Maui with no rental agreement who managed to stay in a house for a year, rent free. Every month the owner called the police, met the officers at the house when he knew his "renters" would be there, in what turned out to be another useless attempt to get them out. This always resulted in a 30 minute argument that ended with the police informing the "renters" they had to pay and leave. They did neither. For a year.
No fathers or mothers think their own children ugly; and this self-deceit is yet stronger with respect to the offspring of the mind. -Miguel de Cervantes, novelist (1547-1616)
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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