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TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo
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12-13-2016, 06:09 AM
So Gypsy you have just stated that traditional cultural practices did not include visiting the summit of Maunakea and it follows logically that the TMT will not prevent anyone from performing their traditional cultural practices.
12-13-2016, 06:52 AM
176,000 vehicle-trips... it doesn't seem like a fair comparison.
MarkP - Yes, it was an off the cuff remark I made that was not very well stated. The point I wanted to make was that protectors pollute the mountain more than the TMT, and are more like an oil pipeline themselves. Perhaps I should have said something like "How many TMT's would it take to equal one leaking Protector's 4x4?" millions of tourists... can cause more substantial damage. widen the existing road... for things like electricity purposes... dust retardants... high altitude helicopter landing pads... gypsy, have you seen study that called for any of the expanded infrastructure you listed for Mauna Kea? If not, why stop there? What if the astronomers start blasting Pink Floyd and use their lasers for a light show to attract even more tourists? 2 million, then 3 million, with Chinese investment in the TMT it could be 100 million? Per month! How does any of this type of continued development encourage or protect Hawaiian Cultural Practices and Traditions? Your guess is as good as mine. "One may pretend knowledge of philosophy more successfully than that of arithmetic." -Last Aphorisms (or how about, one may pretend knowledge with an opinion more successfully than with facts)
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
12-13-2016, 07:33 AM
How does any of this type of continued development encourage or protect Hawaiian Cultural Practices and Traditions?
Hasn't OMKM committed to allowing native cultural pratices? Doesn't the road access encourage cultural practice? When did it become a "Tradition" to hold development hostage? 
12-13-2016, 04:24 PM
"millions of tourists... can cause more substantial damage."
This is a number pulled out of thin air. "widen the existing road... for things like electricity purposes..." There will be no need to widen the existing road, the current road is fine. "dust retardants... No dust retardants are or will be used at the summit other than asking people to drive slowly on unpaved roads. "high altitude helicopter landing pads..." There are no plans to build helicopter landing pads. What's next?
12-13-2016, 05:59 PM
"The protectors and others can only drive to the summit these days because substantial damage has already been caused by the current working telescopes. For example, they built and maintain the road."
Still unanswered: If this is true, why are we talking about people visiting the summit as though this constituted traditional cultural practice?
12-13-2016, 09:18 PM
Mark,
Over the years, the observatories and Mauna Kea Support Services have given assistance to those wanting to visit the summit of Mauna Kea for cultural practices. Among other things, this included offering help with organizing the occasions, advice on how to deal with the conditions and providing free accommodation at the observatories' expense. We have also helped them when there have been medical problems, including emergencies, something I've been involved with personally. Gypsy's comment is simply insulting to people who work on the mountain, including the many locals that work at the observatories and the local companies that rely on contracts with MKSS and the observatories.
12-13-2016, 10:05 PM
Does anyone want to hazard a guess as to who wrote this on Punaweb?
"Could snow be man made up near the summit on most nights? Is it cold enough for some snow making machines? See if we could consistently make snow up near the top we could discuss all kinds of possible revenue makers. Personally I would love to see some extreme skiing and or ski jumping. Also holding ponds or lakes from the daily melted snow could offer lots of potential? Maybe some snow sales, where they load your truck full of the white stuff before you depart the summit? I have gone skiing at least a half dozen times up there in the past(not sure if its still aloud)absolutely stunning and crazy dangerous. Mountain biking, hiking, and other extremes would be some narly adventures too. With such spacious observatories already there, with more sure to come. We should have a nice romantic place to eat near the top with plenty of entertainment too."
12-14-2016, 03:37 AM
The same person who asked:
"How does any of this type of continued development encourage or protect Hawaiian Cultural Practices and Traditions? " 
12-14-2016, 03:42 AM
this should end well...lets import protesters from the mainland.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/34046...m-mainland
12-14-2016, 03:54 AM
Opponents of the Thirty Meter Telescope have raised $250,000 ... The so-called "protectors fund" would pay for the travel and lodging of up to 150 people
$250000 / 150 = 1666/each, or about $1000 after round-trip airfare. Which could be pretty nice lodging for a few days, if you can pick bananas and hunt a pig for food. |
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