12-14-2016, 04:03 AM
Oh sure, let's just turn the protest into another "Burning Man". On court testimonies, they should only allow people that only live on this island.
Community begins with Aloha
Community begins with Aloha
TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo
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12-14-2016, 04:03 AM
Oh sure, let's just turn the protest into another "Burning Man". On court testimonies, they should only allow people that only live on this island.
Community begins with Aloha
12-14-2016, 04:12 AM
let's just turn the protest into another "Burning Man"
Yes, exactly: we'll need increased tourism to pay for the loss of TMT, what better solution than fleecing the very protestors who are preventing TMT?
12-14-2016, 04:17 AM
There are a dozen telescopes already up there. Why is this the first time I am bearing about concerns with wastewater and the aquifer? Because this is all about making trouble, not about the aquifer which is in no more threat from the telescopes than it is from a similar number of any of the home cesspools on the mountain's lower flanks. You know, the ones many of the "protectors" cheerfully dump their waste into daily. The ones thousands of feet closer to the water table. The ones in areas that get 10 times as much rain to flush the contents into the aquifer. The ones that are not zero waste facilities.
12-14-2016, 04:32 AM
Opponents of the Thirty Meter Telescope have raised $250,000 to pay for the travel costs for Native American and other protesters from the mainland to come to the islands, Hawaii News Now has learned.
The so-called "protectors fund" would pay for the travel and lodging of up to 150 people... I did a quick Google Search for "protector's fund hawaii" and the only links I could find were to the Hawaii News Now story and twitter, repeating the HNN story. How would $250,000 in donations find it's way to an unlocatable "protectors fund?" Can anyone else find a source for the people collecting this money? Or does it come from an unnamed benefactor? "One may pretend knowledge of philosophy more successfully than that of arithmetic." -Last Aphorisms (or how about, one may pretend knowledge with an opinion more successfully than with facts)
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
12-14-2016, 04:45 AM
There are quite a few go fund me. Pages related to MaunaKea. Perhaps they are combining them into one.
Between that. Private donations.. and selling their food stamps for cash... they could raise it fairly quickly.
12-14-2016, 05:05 AM
Protectors wish to bring in non Native Hawaiians from the mainland to assist them in their efforts.
Isn't getting rid of outside influence in Native Hawaiian affairs one of the tenets of the Protectors protests on Mauna Kea? Now they want to encourage, and import outside influence? How has that tactic worked out (backfired?) in the past? Kamehameha purchased weapons from American and European ships trading with Hawaii. http://www.anb.org/articles/20/20-01236.html The King (Lunalilo) also wanted to improve Hawaii's economic situation. The Kingdom was in an economic depression, with the whaling industry rapidly declining. Commerce groups asked the king to look at sugar to improve the economy and recommended that a treaty be drawn with the United States to allow Hawaiian sugar to enter the nation tax-free. To make such a treaty, many thought that the Kingdom would have to offer the Pearl Harbor area to the United States in exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunalilo "One may pretend knowledge of philosophy more successfully than that of arithmetic." -Last Aphorisms (or how about, one may pretend knowledge with an opinion more successfully than with facts)
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
12-14-2016, 05:34 AM
Come on anti-telescope people, don't let Gypsy do all the heavy lifting! Chime in and tell us why YOU are against building a telescope on a mountain and injecting hundreds of millions into the local economy.
Please try not to just make stuff up.
12-14-2016, 04:59 PM
Nearly 50 pages of comments on just this latest thread about the topic and somehow you haven't come to the realization that there is a core anti-development sentiment in the anti-TMT movement which doesn't want more jobs, more people, or millions of more dollars added to the economy?
The TMT is a particularly potent symbol to target given the science vs culture or conservation vs development debates, but it is just one of enumerable efforts over many decades to limit growth and attempt to preserve an unique environment and way of life. The Big Island, and Puna in particular, are the legacy of the positive and negative results of these efforts. Values and goals are not inherently correct or universally shared so why expect that everyone wants what you do?
12-14-2016, 05:05 PM
I support the TMT, but the EIS was negligent, and the Resource Management Plan still hasn't been completed. The major issue with the EIS was that it concluded adverse cultural impacts, then went on to say that these impacts were mitigated with the $1 million annual educational fund. This mitigation, I can understand, is insulting to some.
The second-tier telescopes on the mountain should have been decommissioned and demo'd years ago, but the astronomers wanted to get as much as they could, as much astronomy development. The astronomers were greedy, and if they had listened a little bit 20 years ago this situation wouldn't have happened. Their arrogance caused this situation. I mean, why aren't the protectors protecting the 1/3 of Oahu occupied by the US military? Why aren't they speaking out to preserve Hawaiian habitat and forest? Why aren't they protesting Pohakuloa Training Area? Is Mauna Kea really that much more important than any other place on the Island? I think that the arrogance of the astronomers is really to blame, but so are the mid-guided views of the Protectors. Astronomy is a soft target. The US military, not so much. quote:
12-14-2016, 05:55 PM
Kukiniloa,
Could you clarify this statement, please? Do you mean just a couple of them or all of them? "The second-tier telescopes on the mountain should have been decommissioned and demo'd years ago,[...]" Of the top ten most scientifically productive telescopes on the planet, six of them are on Mauna Kea. http://aspbooks.org/publications/492/090.pdf |
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