TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo

[alaskyn66]

What HOTPE said and the fact that people are more toxic. Every medication , drug people take... comes out the other end at some point.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge

Is there any real difference, between a 350# Seal pooping or a whale weighing tons pooping, and a person pooping?

No.
But there is a difference between 1 or 5 seals & whales going where nature calls, and 10,000 or 100,000 people doing the same thing. Outhouses had been legal, even environmentally appropriate when they were 2 or 3 miles apart.

The problem is quantity, not quality.

"One may pretend knowledge of philosophy more successfully than that of arithmetic." -Last Aphorisms (or how about, one may pretend knowledge with an opinion more successfully than with facts)

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I can understand quantity and concentration being an issue. People talk about nature, and people, as if we aren't part of nature. We are, no different than a bear or a seal or a deer. IMHO, effluent should be used to raise corn that is used to make bio-fuel, but that is just me.

[seekir]

The article doesn't seem to state whether the effluent is treated or not. I was under the impression that our sewage plants "clean" effluent of toxins and bacteria? But alaskyn66 has a point: there are substances other than human waste in the chain, mainly soaps and all of their additives I would suppose.

As to the ongoing TMT debate, it seems to me that there are far more pressing issues that other sorts of development present to the "sanctity" of Hawaii nei. There doesn't seem to be a great deal of fuss about our landfills, coastal development, overfishing, golf courses, hotels, exclusive high-end residential projects that make some of the nicest areas of the islands the domain of the privileged... All of these have consequences which are arguably much more detrimental to humanity and the environment than this purely scientific project on the chilly and mostly lifeless summit. None of these other matters can promise the kind of knowledge and learning that instruments like only the TMT and similar projects do. Does anyone else see an imbalance in the unique concern folks reserve for the telescope?

[kalakoa]

Does anyone else see an imbalance in the unique concern folks reserve for the telescope?

A telescope once leaked a tiny amount of mercury, some of which was not recovered; anti-TMT folks use this as an example of the "massive environmental impact".

Meanwhile, people throw flourescent lights away every day, each of which contains a small amount of mercury, all of which ends up in the landfill.

But nobody protests the flourescent lights, in fact they were (until recently) considered "environmentally friendly" due to the lower power consumption. (Today's LEDs are cheaper and even more efficient, tomorrow's landfills will be full of plastic...)

[Guest]

The Big Island's coastline has become a large Toilet for the millions of visiting tourists. Some island communities like Puako's, The operation of tourism businesses without any bathroom is business as usual. For an example, Try asking the Puako store owner or any of the kayak tour operators in Puako about a restroom and all you hear is "Sorry we have sewer issues and no restrooms".
Hawaii has a record breaking amount of tourists visiting this year and a growing local Homeless community which could mean a record amount of urine and feces along our coastline. jmo

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2016/07/28...f-of-2016/

Some exciting tourism news for the TMT project here:

http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2016/1...n-flights/

Time to ask a few questions here.

Does this tourism increase help our island communities? How?

Would gas, grocery and restaurant prices be lower or higher for us residents?
would resort rooms and golf rates be lower or higher for us residents?
Would land and home prices for our next local generation be more affordable?
Would the education for our keiki be equal or improved?
Would our basic water and electricity rates be lower or higher due to these tourism and revenue increases?

Would this tourism increase on the Big Island help Hawaiian air, Walmart, Costco or The astronomy community? How?

Now that the millions of tourists are coming to the island and large projects like the TMT's are planned and want their pieces of the tourism pie and island resources. Would a growing industry like this be a good or bad fit for the Big Island and its many residents?

https://www.abqjournal.com/847723/native...nding.html

Would this type of gaming industry and diversification provide local residents something besides EBT? Maybe jobs, careers, hope, education or other long term benefits?

[PaulW]

So now you're anti-tourism as well? How shortsighted can you be? Anyway, nothing to do with the telescope, maybe you could start a new thread "How to completely destroy the economy here".

[kalakoa]

"How to completely destroy the economy here"

What economy? After the permit-fee-license-inspection regime and a retail/commercial sector that can charge any price they like to a "captive audience", what do we even have?

Does this tourism increase help our island communities? How?

Tourism provides our island the opportunity to send money to Oahu...

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

telescope once leaked a tiny amount of mercury

There's probably more mercury in the tooth fillings of some of the older Protectors. Would they consider themselves contaminated, desecrated, and therefore in need of special management and supervision?


people throw flourescent lights away every day

Swirly CFL's contain mercury as well. Look what's in all the batteries tossed on a regular basis. Ever see the radioactive symbol on your fire alarm...

If the Water Protectors, domestic and imported, are truly interested in protecting water, here is a rainfall map for Hawaii, with Mauna Kea shown among the driest areas on the island:
http://rainfall.geography.hawaii.edu/int...vemap.html

Then there is the water surrounding the island which as we've seen recently in this thread, could stand some protecting. If you are a Water Protector, the summit of Mauna Kea and the TMT should be somewhere around your lowest priority. It has less water to pollute and less to protect than almost anywhere on the island.

Now on the other hand, if you are a Rock Protector...

"One may pretend knowledge of philosophy more successfully than that of arithmetic." -Last Aphorisms (or how about, one may pretend knowledge with an opinion more successfully than with facts)

[kalakoa]

Would they consider themselves contaminated, desecrated, and therefore in need of special management and supervision?

I'm sure they'll get right on that, just as soon as someone wants to spend $1B somewhere in the vicinity of the problem.

[Kapoho Joe]

Gypsy would like Hawaii to go back to the stone age. No wonder his kid went to school on the east coast.