TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo

[leilanidude]

gypsy has never answered my question either... has he converted his place to septic over cesspool?

[TomK]

I'm having trouble understanding this comment:

"Some exciting tourism news for the TMT project here:

http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2016/1...n-flights/"

Why is this exciting news for the TMT project?

[kalakoa]

http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/north-haw...et-it-snow

Look at all this desecration! It may be considered "spiritual practice" by some, but these are clearly not auli'i (or even Hawaiian), building false idols, and taking sacred snow away from the mountain. Where are the protectors in all this?!?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

taking sacred snow away from the mountain
...
From the article: Visitors to Mauna Kea Summit pack snow into the back of a truck to take it home to Kaloko

With such a limited amount of precipitation falling on the Mauna Kea watershed area, how does removing snow in a pickup truck, for relocation far away from the mauna's summit affect the environment there? Perhaps a Water Protector could explain?

Couldn't the plundering and removal of an essential element (snow) from the summit by those who are not ali'i be considered kapu? Was the removal of snow allowed in in times past when the ali'i ruled?

Snow only falls on the highest peaks of Mauna Kea, Mauna Loa and Haleakala and nowhere else in Hawaii, therefore if it was never intended for Kaloko or other "lower" regions, shouldn't shoveling it into the back pickup trucks be considered an offensive exploitation of resources?

Yes, where are the Protectors to stop this removal of the sacred ain'a, which would seem to be as great a defilement of the mountain as the addition, or construction of an observatory, such as the TMT.

Greater, even, as the snow falls in grace, then pauses momentarily in a narrow interstice, a pure white veil between we on earth, and heaven above.

"One may pretend knowledge of philosophy more successfully than that of arithmetic." -Last Aphorisms (or how about, one may pretend knowledge with an opinion more successfully than with facts)

[punaticbychoice]

HOTPE:
Good points.

[Eric1600]

FYI Gary Sanders the Project Manager at TMT International Observatory gave his testimony on Jan. 3. He talks about the F1 design and the projects considerations for building on Maunakea. You can watch his testimony on http://naleo.tv/VOD/ look for Jan. 3 testimony and he starts around 20 minutes in after the opening drama of "missing documents".

It's an interesting discussion about the details of TMT.

[leilanidude]

Look at all this desecration! It may be considered "spiritual practice" by some, but these are clearly not auli'i (or even Hawaiian), building false idols, and taking sacred snow away from the mountain. Where are the protectors in all this?!?

----

My perception is that the "protectors" are in pickup trucks, taking snow from the mountain and that the auli'i never took snow because they had no way to carry it down before it melted.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Yesterday, January 4th, was the birthday of Sir Isaac Newton born in 1643. He proved the planets of our solar system were governed by the same laws of physics as objects on earth.

He said, “Truth is ever to be found in simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” I wonder how much truth he would think may be found in the convoluted meanderings of the TMT hearings?

He also said, “I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."

Perhaps not so different from the physicists and astrophysicists of today who watch in wonder beneath the clear cold skies of Mauna Kea, hoping to discover a hazy and smoother nebula or prettier comet streaming by.

"One may pretend knowledge of philosophy more successfully than that of arithmetic." -Last Aphorisms (or how about, one may pretend knowledge with an opinion more successfully than with facts)

[Eric1600]

Harry Fergerstrom's issues with "missing documents" led to a shown down with the judge yesterday. Fergerstrom said on the 3rd he didn't receive "all the documents" so the judge had them printed and delivered to him in court yesterday morning. She then told him to review and check them. He didn't do it. He then said he was too busy paying attention to the trial and just said "Due time and due course!" He also said he hadn't left the court room because he's paying attention to the trial. The judge confronted him and tried to call a witness to indicate he had left the court to talk on his phone. The first witness was hostile and refused to even spell her name or answer any questions so Amano called the officer and he testified that Fergerstrom left the room at least once, counter to what Fergerstrom said.

She then admonished him for not being accurate and to review the documents in a timely manor so we can confirm he has everything rather than repeating this argument every day which has been a problem for Fergerstrom since the beginning of the trial. He made a false statement to the judge about his presence in the court room.

The judge put a new rule in place where people need to sign in and out of the court room so if they argue they about their participation or involvement it can be proven if they were present or not. Then all the petitioners lined up to object and tell the judge she's treating Fergerstrom badly, even offending one of the petitioners who -- gasp -- was very offended because it happened in front of her daughter whom she brought into court.

I suggest you try watching it for the full effect and see the bias against the judge in that room.
http://naleo.tv/VOD/
TMT Hearing Coverage Jan. 4 - Part 2
The drama starts at 15:45 and runs for about 30 minutes to 42:00.

If you make it to about 29:00 you'll see she almost has a breakdown over the frustration of dealing with the petitioners and not being respected.

Harry has been complaining from day one about not having enough power to run his computer to read electronic documents and needing hard copies of everything. Almost everyday he complains about not having some document. They've been sending them via mail, but Harry waits until the witness is on the stand to complain he doesn't have XXX document because the other side is not providing him anything.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

didn't receive "all the documents"...
first witness was hostile and refused to even spell her name or answer any questions...
He made a false statement to the judge...
all the petitioners lined up to object...
offended because it happened in front of her daughter...
not having enough power to run his computer...
other side is not providing him anything...

In the past, on occasion, I have stated my opinion that the Protectors are not the best and the brightest of the Hawaiian people. If that comment offends you, please bookmark this page.

Yes, I know, it can be argued that the participants are clever, and crazy like a fox in their tactics of using the law and courtroom to their advantage. I would argue back, more crazy like crazy.

Thanks for posting the update Eric 1600.

"One may pretend knowledge of philosophy more successfully than that of arithmetic." -Last Aphorisms (or how about, one may pretend knowledge with an opinion more successfully than with facts)