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quote:
Originally posted by knieft
quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
It would behoove some on this forum to listen...carefully, to her words. You may not understand, you may disagree, you may not grasp the entirety of her position. Nevertheless, in my view, her mana'o is pure truth, and of our Kupuna.
opihikao,
You are the OP and I sometimes imagine you as Judge Amano since I have a tendency to imagine pleasant things while watching the meanderings of the hearings.
You obviously feel strongly that Mrs. Holi's testimony was important. I watched half of the long vid and all of the bigislandvideonews vid. Perhaps I am wrong to post without seeing _all_ of the long vid...
However. You state: "You may not understand, you may disagree, you may not grasp the entirety of her position. Nevertheless, in my view, her mana'o is pure truth, and of our Kupuna"
Since I am a big fan (not) of "pure truth" I must say that I am at a loss to see what any of the testimony actually has to do with the TMT. I admit that I am likely not to grasp the entirety of her position.
Still, I am hoping you can specify which moments of the testimony and/or cross examination would be swaying to someone, as myself, who considers that the crowning tech of centuries of scientific inquiry, and the crowning tech of several nations who put their money where their mouth is, should be banned from the best planetary site for its construction.
All told, I watch the "contested case hearings" and wonder what the point is. To give anyone, anywhere, anyhow, the status to "question" anyone, anywhere, anyhow? And then what? Judge Amano gets to rule what?
I suspect you may dismiss my queries as is your prerogative, but I very much wonder if can can turn me in the better direction on this whole thing.
Cheers,
Kirt
Aloha kakahiaka, Kirt, and all. Mahalo for your kind words. I should have been more clear in my post re: Wilma Holi. Her testimony was only important as to our Hawaiian cultural beliefs and experiences. I was taken aback when she discussed some things that are very "Kapu".
Given Judge Amano's respect for Mrs. Holi, and her being the Judge's witness, gave Mrs. Holi "credibility" (in my view). There were no "special moments" in her testimony, nor was her testimony meant to sway anyone's opinion. I did get to visit with her after her testimony, and do have great respect for her as Kupuna, and don't necessarily completely agree with her (we are from different ohana, and teachings).
As to Judge Amano making a decision, "then what?", to answer your question, I believe either way she rules, it will be appealed. No question. Not to mention, there is another potential Contested Case Hearing upcoming due to Judge Namamura vacating the TMT sublease with the UH. SMH.
I attended the hearing yesterday, and found the rebuttal witness, Brian Cruz's testimony very interesting. He addressed the Cultural Impact Assessment and the EIS, some of which was quite damaging to the UH/TMT case.
Judge Amano has handled this case with so much patience and guidance, yet is tough when need be. She really is a wonderful woman, and I thanked her for her good work. She has a great sense of humor, and controls the hearing with respectful handling of each participant. At the very least, no one can say Judge Amano was "unfair", nor can anyone claim she is biased.
Mr. Tom, mahalo, and I have great respect for you, too. A'ole pilikia! (Warmest aloha to Pam). No matter how this turns out, the one thing that needs to be said is: (Most) Hawaiians are not against science. The issue with TMT is the State/BLNR/DLNR/UH failed miserably in the management of Mauna Kea, the process is flawed in issuing permits (including TMT), and all parties are to blame for where we are today.
Hopefully, we can move forward, without further division. I have tried to stay out of this thread of late, as the back and forth in the minutia of this case is counterproductive. I trust this will be a learning curve for ALL (elected officials/appointed officials/the public at large).
Have a lovely day all. Mahalo ke Akua, e na Aumakua, e na Kupuna.
As always, JMO.
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Latest vids:
TMT Hearing Coverage February 27, 2017 (Part 2) https://telvuepmd-a.akamaihd.net/vod/con...0_1000.mp4
TMT Hearing Coverage February 28, 2017 (Part 1) https://telvuepmd-a.akamaihd.net/vod/con...ac_600.mp4
And my script should be changed on line 18 to the following to account for change in vid quality:
quote:
grep -Eo 'https://telvuepmd-a.akamaihd.net/vod/connect-vod/[^"]+' /tmp/vid_items > /tmp/vid_files
quote:
The issue with TMT is the State/BLNR/DLNR/UH failed miserably in the management of Mauna Kea, the process is flawed in issuing permits (including TMT), and all parties are to blame for where we are today.
I'm not sure that historical issue will be given much weight in this proceeding, as it isn't part of the eight criteria. I do agree that is an issue, it was because of it the 2000 CMP was established, and Judge Heen gave an interesting account on how it came about. It is probably the biggest issue for the parties and witnesses who are against the TMT but not against the astronomy in the Mauna Kea astronomy district. Even the status quo recreational use by the public seems to be contradictory to the way some practitioners would say the mauna should be managed.
However, I'd doubt that without the TMT there would be much additional funding, let alone state funding, for improving management of the Mauna Kea, especially with the county faces more significant issues as Richard Ha brought up (homelessness, poverty, suicide rate). The most practical way to improve management of the Mauna would be to give the management teams of the area more resources, which TMT would do in a direct way.
quote:
Once TMT is in operation, it will pay $1 million a year. A total of 80% of the lease rent paid by TMT goes to the Office of Mauna Kea Management to m#257;lama (steward) the mountain and the remaining 20% goes to the Office of Hawaiian Affairs.
I doubt you'd get that money from any gov't office specifically for Mauna Kea. I think the cultural practitioners should focus effort on making sure the funds to OMKM from the TMT are used effectively to manage the mauna and secure funds for the Kahu Ku Mauna council, for instance hiring cultural practitioners for comprehensive studies or ensuring harmony between the different cultural practices.
I appreciate the practical viewpoint of the native Hawaiians who are for the project, for instance Richard Ha's argument about how the TMT can move the island forward on solving more significant problems by improving educational opportunities for K-12, or Elroy Osario's point on how the cell phone towers around Mauna Kea aren't being protested, or Prof. Coleman's and Chad Baybayan's historical perspective on the astronomer navigators that originally settled the island.
Opihikao, Missed you.
Agree completely with your statements regarding the management of Mauna Kea and the process being flawed. I feel that many of those same managements or people in charge could have done more to prevent Puna's outbreak of the Ohia tree fungus or ROD sometime back as well. Mahalo for sharing your opinions and being there at the hearing first hand.
Quasar, Welcome to PWeb. Thank you for your practical viewpoints and video links regarding my communities contested case hearing for this TMT project. I would like to hear what you or Mr Ha would have to say about this ROD outbreak in my neighborhood and what you think the cause is, or could it have been prevented, how?
http://e360.yale.edu/features/fatal_blig...hia_fungus
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And the Gyp tries to hijack another post .
Aloha Obie, it's a TMT thread. I made a post and did not hijack my own post, I ended it that way for a reason.
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You think the telescopes are causing trees to die??
If not, then it's another annoying Gypsy hijack. Why not start your own thread?
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Naleo has caught up on a bunch of vids:
TMT Hearing Coverage March 1, 2017 (Part 2) https://telvuepmd-a.akamaihd.net/vod/con...1b_600.mp4
TMT Hearing Coverage March 1, 2017 (Part 1) https://telvuepmd-a.akamaihd.net/vod/con...46_600.mp4
TMT Hearing Coverage February 28, 2017 (Part 2) https://telvuepmd-a.akamaihd.net/vod/con...3f_600.mp4
TMT Hearing Coverage February 28, 2017 (Part 1) https://telvuepmd-a.akamaihd.net/vod/con...ac_600.mp4
TMT Hearing Coverage February 27, 2017 (Part 2) https://telvuepmd-a.akamaihd.net/vod/con...0_1000.mp4
TMT Hearing Coverage February 27, 2017 (Part 1) https://telvuepmd-a.akamaihd.net/vod/con...1c_600.mp4
Posts: 4,905
Threads: 83
Joined: Feb 2009
quote:
Originally posted by gypsy69
Aloha Obie, it's a TMT thread. I made a post and did not hijack my own post, I ended it that way for a reason.
Huh ?
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quote:
Originally posted by knieft
I watch about once a week on average. I takes me that long to recover from what I see and hear.
It really comes up as the most absurd and sad thing I have ever witnessed "live" (as opposed to history) in my 5+ decade life.
That something like the TMT can be held hostage by the folks I see on those videos--I don't have the proper words (though plenty of improper ones). That, in general, intelligence is usurped by the opposite...
Those poor scientists sitting there, somehow patiently, and be "questioned" by "protectors"...it's not onion.com or SNL, it's actually happening.
If Ige isn't going to step in and put and end to this (can he? or is there no antidote to this lawsuit crap), I hope Trump does. I wonder if it even on the radar at the national level.
The _impunity_ of those <deleted> wasting everyones time, money, and intelligence! I hope karma does it's thing in time.
Kirt
Yesterday (March 1), Deborah Ward took the stage for what now seems the millionth time to question Joseph Camara about the impact of pollution events.
She rambles on and on and on and on and on, for about 1 minute, until Amano finally loses patience and says, "Ms. Ward get to your question please!"
"I'm trying - I'm trying to set foundation."
Amano:
"The foundation has to be set through him.
All you're doing is spewing out things so we need to get you to a question!"
Note that Barbara was in the first contested case hearing; she is not a novice petitioner. She has probably been present during hundreds of hours of witness cross examination in this hearing .
With one day left, she still did not know how to effectively question a witness.
Barbara is concerned that if a paved parking lot is built next to the TMT, then when it rains, fluids from cars will mix with the rain, so she wants to know if in a 50 year period this would have an effect on the groundwater subsurface in the area where that water would percolate.
Joseph replied that he doesn't think that there's anyone qualified to answer her question, but notes that that any contamination of the water "in this area is desecration" and that "this is the highest form of the water element."
It's a ridiculous question. If she's really worried about water pollution, she should be asking him about the huge amount of raw sewage being deposited in Big Island cesspools every year.
How many more days left in this case hearing?
Will Ms Rose Tsing from the University or Mr S Roehrig from the BLNR be taking the stand, or have they already?
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