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TomK, You were really educational to me once and for that I thank you, but thou doth protest too much. You aren't among the members of this community who only has negative things to say about others, you contribute. I admire that about you.
You said: "Even if the TMT is built on Mauna Kea, which is unlikely as I've already stated, there are no plans to widen the Saddle Road, so have no idea where you came up with that."
I didn't realize they had finished, it looked pretty far from done last month. Like I said, they didn't budget that for Costco shoppers. If it isn't TMT it's Pahakaloa funding it, but my money's on TMT. I thought you were a proponent, why isn't that good news to you? Cheers.
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The TMT did not fund any of the Saddle Road construction and improvements, nor is it any of their business.
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they didn't budget that for Costco shoppers
Right. Nobody else has any reason to drive across the island, that entire highway project was in anticipation of TMT, and the fact that it continues is clear evidence that TMT will be built on Mauna Kea.
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Opihikao:
A very significant portion of the testimony of the protesters has been utterly ridiculous. I wouldn't be doing right by you if I didn't stand up to you on that point. I suppose if they succeed in stopping the TMT there will be a win in there somewhere for Native Hawaiians just because they were able to throw their weight around for once but the cost will otherwise be staggering. The image that I have of Sovereignty activists and Native Hawaiians in general as noble and worthy underdogs has already taken a blow from which it is unlikely to ever recover. Given that I have been a lifelong bleeding heart liberal that took some doing.
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MarkP, quite to the contrary. These proceedings have opened my eyes. Alleged worshippers have been treading on endangered weiku bugs for years, and tainting the sacred land and our water tables with runoff from their vehicles and excrement. Non ali'i have moved stones, and those stones could have come from unknown, unmarked natural stone formation worship sites.
The answer is clear, noone should be allowed to ascend Mauna Kea, unless they do so by teleportation or levitation.
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quote:
Originally posted by ohiagrrl
I didn't realize they had finished, it looked pretty far from done last month. Like I said, they didn't budget that for Costco shoppers. If it isn't TMT it's Pahakaloa funding it, but my money's on TMT. I thought you were a proponent, why isn't that good news to you? Cheers.
As a point of information, Federal Highway funds are paying for the improvements currently underway to the Saddle Road ( http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/loc...de-stretch)- not TMT or PTA. The section being improved has been one of the most dangerous stretches of road in the State - I have personally encountered several accidents on that section of road and, when I regularly traveled it, saw evidence of new accidents on at least a weekly basis. That highway makes it possible for workers from the East side of the island to be employed on the west side and represents a major economic benefit for underemployed East Hawaii residents.
I try, possibly not always successfully, to keep in mind a useful adage: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than say something that removes all doubt."
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It is ironic that people only seem to care about keeping Mauna Kea pristine and clean when the rest of the island has a lot of issues. Not to mention poor forgotten Mauna Loa.
Anyway, my understanding of the case proceedings is it will take about 6-7 weeks to publish the final transcripts and then people get about 1 month to finalize their findings. After that they get about two weeks to address anything else that was filed. This puts the final decision date sometime around June. Does that sound about right?
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http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/news...onths-away
Next, court reporters face an enormous task of completing the written transcript. That could take five to six weeks, said Amano, a retired judge.
Afterward, the parties, which at the start totaled nearly two dozen, will have 30 days to submit their proposed decision, including findings of fact and conclusions of law. Amano said she will finish her decision following a two-week period in which objections to proposed orders can be made.
As of the end of January, the contested case had cost the state $275,758, according to the Department of Land and Natural Resources.
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Ok, think about it in these terms, actual building of large structures like the proposed TMT building(s) requires proper egress in order to transport large pre-engineered segments of said structure(s), probably manufactured overseas and shipped in to then be delivered up-country via enormous flatbed trailers. It would have been difficult on old windy roads over lava tube ski jumps. Not only did they do major grading/leveling to that stretch of highway with structural fill, it was significantly widened. Ever lived anywhere they were building a large bridge or other Federally driven infrastructure project? One would see vast highway improvements in years directly preceding construction. I'm not up on the details of whether TMT is completely private or also receives federal funding as most scientific organizations do. It seems consistent that most private companies are also certainly required to bargain in infrastructure upgrades to areas they would impact. Conversely, considering the amount of $ TMT will be leasing any land for has gone up substantially since the beginning of this controversy, perhaps the State may also have been required to throw in some bargaining chips in order to keep TMT on the table during this lengthy process of jurisprudence.
But other factors could also play in. Better engineering projects look at the big picture and get as much log term bang for the buck as they can. Upgrades to Pahakuloa could also be impending or maybe a long term relocation plan for a portion of the Satellite base project that held Hawaiian Homelands in litigation down South Point for decades and seemed to go nowhere. As well as the USA facing multiple new Pacific nuclear threats, the Space Race is back on and what better spot to do R&D? Read between the lines of world news. Protest supporters can only pray that the Protectors hold out long enough to get rightful entitlements which weren't even on the table prior to the protests and that is something. Just some more issues to consider. Time will tell.
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