HICoP Rally Saturday Sept. 9th 6-8 pm

[kalakoa]

There are already rules about where they can fly !

...and who enforces these rules? OH YEAH THAT'S RIGHT NOBODY

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

...and who enforces these rules? OH YEAH THAT'S RIGHT NOBODY

But... unlike the helicopter free-for-all (or perhaps more accurately free-for-them), try driving on an alternative route to Hilo, ignoring the rules that say we have to drive on Highway 130. If you wanted to take the railroad right of way through Shipman property, see enforcement in action with a single phone call from a Shipman employee to the police department, and see who is enforced upon. Hint; you, for driving on the historic right of way.*

If laws, rules, and regulations were handled the same for everyone, little guy or big guy, the helicopters might get a few more tickets, don't you think?

*Mr. Walter incorrectly represented the details of a bike/walk/emergency route along old Railroad Avenue. This would be a “Rails-to-Trails” conversion of a historically used right of way.
http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/commenta...ue-partner

The Donner Party really wasn't that great of a party, was it?

[Kapoho Joe]

quote:

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Originally posted by PaulW

If anti-helicopter people want to be taken seriously then they should at least try to hide their envy of anyone who has more money than them.
Some actual data on the number of flights over a certain spot would be good too.

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I have more money than most who take these helicopter tours and yet somehow I am also not happy about the constant nuisance that their overflights cause. What's my problem Paul?

[kalakoa]

If laws, rules, and regulations were handled the same for everyone

They are, just not according to the published specification.

Enforcement is inversely proportional to the perceived revenue valuation for government.

Interfere with the cash cow that is tourism? Never.

Raise your property taxes? Sure -- what are you going to do, leave the island?

I maintain that the best way to frame this issue is in terms of "property value" -- if the helicopters are really such a great source of tourism revenue, fine, credit my property taxes for suffering their intrusion.

[PaulW]

Your x-ray vision into the finances of people flying in helicopters is admirable.
How many choppers a day over Kapoho, Joe?

[TomK]

The routes are changed on a daily basis, so it's virtually impossible to give a true daily rate for one particular area, but when it's over your area, the noise can be fairly constant.

The Hilo -> volcano flights last 50 minutes. Let's say take offs are every two hours (leaving time for refueling and change of passengers). Just a few weeks ago I was waiting at the cell phone lot at the airport and there were six tour helicopters there, all of which took off on tours while I was there (I don't know what the total number is).

So, assuming they all follow the same route, which is generally true, that's 12 flights every two hours. For 12 hours, that's 72 overflights. My experience that instead of two hours, it's more like 1.5 hours, which means it could be nearer 100 flights a day.

[leilanidude]

I don't believe that taking a helicopter flight is elitist at all. How many of these people have saved money for years to be able to visit Hawaii? How many of these same tourists think that $200 for a flight is a lot of money yet do it anyway because they are here for their once-in-a-lifetime trip?

[leilanidude]

TomK - I did the math a while back for INO and his posse. Posted it on one of his threads. I used the actual number of helicopters on island for all the tour companies and the amount of tours done each day, based upon flight schedules, which completely disproved their wild numbers that they throw around. Remember also, when INO was claiming to have purchased a tracking device so he could prove there were hundreds of flights per day? Never heard more on that...

[MarkD]

Helicopters tours are elitist in the sense that they are going to places where significant, sometimes large, numbers of people are on the ground viewing a natural attraction. The people took a car or bus and then they got out a walked a bit, or perhaps some ways, to enjoy the environment.

Whatever noise there is from the vehicles is relegated to the parking lots, which can be some distance from the natural attraction.

The helicopters, with just 3-6 people on board (or something thereabouts), intrude on the site overhead, with noise and visual disturbance. The attitude that it is OK to do this is elitist. Somewhat similar to those shorelines where vehicles have been banned from driving on the sand, but some guy with big 4 wheeler drives down regardless.

(Interesting how the most adamant helicopter supporters are also among the most adamant TMT supporters. A new generation of people in East Hawaii?)

[leilanidude]

Are tour buses not elitist then? They make more noise than a single economy car, they get special parking at the attractions and the tours cost a lot.