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what is sustainable? The extremely depleted levels we have now...
Reef fish are a resource for everyone in Hawaii.
Many tourists expect to see colorful fish while on vacation.
Perhaps the people collecting them can invest in a fish farm and revive the populations now depleted, raise their tropical fish in captivity, better to survive when transferred into an aquarium. If they have a business with steady customers, they could also make an investment in tanks, pumps, filters, etc. Instead of two flippers.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
what is sustainable? The extremely depleted levels we have now...
...
Perhaps the people collecting them can invest in a fish farm and revive the populations now depleted, raise their tropical fish in captivity, better to survive when transferred into an aquarium. If they have a business with steady customers, they could also make an investment in tanks, pumps, filters, etc. Instead of two flippers.
Sure, why not, except there are those who will argue, just as passionately, about fish farming being an environmental disaster... even open ocean fish cultivation. Not that what you suggest is even remotely possible - there are very few ornamental fish that are amenable to managed cultivation.
I get real nervous about legislative bans on accessing a natural resource: essentially, that ban says "our minds are made up, we don't care about the data; we don't care who it puts out of business; who benefits from that business; or how it could be managed in a sustainable way; etc."
What makes me nervous is that it could be "my" business next - whether it is raising livestock for food (got to shut down those mean old slaughterhouses killing our pretty pets); growing crops using conventional agricultural practices (nasty damned chemicals, can't expose our young'uns to evil chemicals), or growing trees (remember the battle over growing the eucalyptus trees in Hamakua? And now an equally passionate battle over cutting them down). And don't forget, the telescopes have to go, and we can't bottle water...
Giving the ideologues their way has become a habit in Hawaii's politics - given enough time and political acquiescence, there will be no economic base in Hawaii at all. It is well within my memory when tourism was the target of the Hawaiian activist faction and of course the military continues to be. Take those both away, and what do we have left? House-boy and repairman for the uber rich?
Oh, I forgot, we can all grow weed - anyone left in the state can live out their lives in stupefaction so that they won't know or care that they have "neither a pot nor a winder"...
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it could be "my" business next - whether it is raising livestock for food (got to shut down those mean old slaughterhouses killing our pretty pets); growing crops using conventional agricultural practices (nasty damned chemicals,
It’s an ongoing battle isn’t it? But it’s more like a merry-go-round than kicked-out-the-door and don’t look back.
Raising livestock - roosters as livestock will never be banned, so if you like something which I hear “tastes like chicken” you’ll always have that to feed your family.
Chemicals - Hawaii just banned chlorpyrifos, but there’s plenty more where that came from. DuPont, Monsanto (Bayer), Dow, they’re a busy bunch.
The tropical fish collectors will put themselves out of business soon enough, when it’s not worth their while to dive in the ocean anymore because the fish are mostly gone. If the bill passes, the state will only be a step or two ahead of the fish collectors and their self created predicament.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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The fish collectors are all take and no give. Our shores have gotten boring to snorkle in. Thanks to them. IF you want to see great sea life snorkle at the Channel Islands National Park. No fishing or fish collecting allowed there.
Assume the best and ask questions.
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Glinda: "And, I suppose the critical question for Dan is, what is sustainable? "
It is what a rationale, scientific conservation and species studies determines it to be. Conservation. Wise Use. Sustainable yield.
But increasingly in a broad spectrum across environmental resource issues, we are not getting them. We are getting outright bans, absent detailed inquiry. Why?
Because environmental extremists, including animal welfare people, are hijacking conservation movements. They want No Use. Permanent protection. Concepts like population rebound and sustainable yield, central tenets of the Hawaiians' fishing kapus, are conveniently ignored.
By the way, the proper term for this is preservation.
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hijacking conservation movements
Hijacking what? Right, and Climate change is a Chinese plot.
Sometimes our freedoms are abused. It is amazing how greed has allowed corporate entities to use the freedom to lie in order to brainwash the gullible that would support their continued raping and pillaging of the planet.. hijacking conservation movements. Where'd you get that gibberish? Breitbart? Infowars?
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"Hijacking what?"
I used a bit hyperbole there, but the transformation of conservation movements into preservation movements is pronounced. There are numerous examples: Opposition to every suggested delisting of any endangered species, most recently the grizzly bear. A ban on trophy hunting. False assertions that Japanese whaling is harming the minke whale population.
Environmentalist extremists allied with animal welfare and animal rights activists.
They are broadly anti-hunting and anti-use of natural resources. Banning all fish collecting under the fable that this violates Hawaiians' cultural ethic on the use of natural resources? Give me a break.
"their continued raping and pillaging of the planet"
Oh, please...not this Luddite descriptor again.
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MarkD, You are wandering off the farm a bit.
As for the fish collections.... this had been abused and unrestrained for far too long. The shore fish are depleted. DNLR does little or nothing about it. Probably for a reason. Millions of dollars are involved.
Not long ago someone found about 1,000 tropical fish dumped on the ground Kona side. There has been no control. Time to stop. These guys can find some other way to buy their beer besides stripping the near shore. Let a few years go by and reassess.
Assume the best and ask questions.
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"Let a few years go by and reassess." At least that would be something of a comprise, though it would put people out of business. How about stricter regulation--permit system with fees backed up by fines.
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it would put people out of business
You know.. there were guys that got up in the morning and went to work at Auschwitz. You would argue the validity of continuing to kill people because of the sanctity of their jobs?
From my perspective, an argument for the continuation of harvesting reef fish isn't any different.
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