Hawaii Democrats: We need your help NOW – TODAY.

[Punatic007]

Firstly I don't trust our county council(except Matt K) or the Mayor to institute a shutdown or do much of anything for that matter. They have proved themselves to be beyond inadequate on many levels.

I like my freedom and if people are so stupid they don't educate themselves or don't care and spread to their family and friends so be it, the gene pool is filthy. I needed a part for my solar system yesterday and I was hugely grateful Homedepot was open and that I was able to drive there, I now have power. I took a risk going inside and protected myself as much as possible. And I also appreciated watching the crowd going in and out of Walmart which helped me form this opinion, knowledge is power.

[randomq]

Knieft, I am usually a staunch advocate for personal freedoms. At the same time, I realize there are exceptions. We have prisons for people that injure society. We have the draft in dire times of war. We have restrictions on travel when dealing with natural disasters. This may be one of those times where the danger to society justifies such measures.

If you disagree, where do you personally draw the line? After community spread is tested and growing? When all the hospital beds are full? Never?

As far as effectiveness of a quarantine, it will be effective if it is longer than the average course of the virus. 1 month? People just exposed will have time to show symptoms (or not) and then build antibodies so as not to be contagious. Very ill people can be identified and taken to the hospital without infecting others. Grocery/pharmacy/medical workers need to use PPE and be tested. If we had sufficient tests we could coordinate with other states and actually snuff this thing out. Even without tests, though, we can put the breaks on it. If we do nothing but pump the breaks once in a while we can keep the numbers from growing too large at any given time.

Maybe this strategy *can* be applied to other needless deaths. Maybe we as a society should be more proactive about people dying from flu or auto accidents. Highways speeds have been limited and seat belts required, both of which restrict freedoms and save lives. I guess it's about where you draw the line, and I'm curious where you do.

[randomq]

I'll also add that many of our healthcare workers, especially specialists, are older, and we already have a shortage. And that a lot of spending on this island happens because of retirees. So there are direct financial implications to not doing anything to flatten the curve. The risks may be larger than some are calculating.

[Guest]

I guess it's about where you draw the line..

And, in a time of a world wide emergency such as the one we currently face, if that line is around individuals rather than the welfare of the community, we've failed.

#ShutitdownHarry

[My 2 cents]

"I guess it's about where you draw the line"

And when.

[knieft]

quote:

---

Originally posted by randomq

Knieft, I am usually a staunch advocate for personal freedoms. At the same time, I realize there are exceptions. We have prisons for people that injure society. We have the draft in dire times of war. We have restrictions on travel when dealing with natural disasters. This may be one of those times where the danger to society justifies such measures.

If you disagree, where do you personally draw the line? After community spread is tested and growing? When all the hospital beds are full? Never?

---

I don’t disagree. I am all for social distancing. I was trying to point out the lunacy of logic shown in the line, “if even just one life is saved it will be worth it” especially in terms of a pandemic.

The range of government “enforcement” of social distancing will be interesting to see play out, here and around the world. If there is no range there won’t be much way of evaluating the computer models’ accuracy.

I don’t think the folks demanding more total government enforcement get a pass because their arguments are so morally superior. Often it appears as nothing more than virtue signaling, if that is the right term.

Cuomo did a 360 in a few days. Talks bs like most politicians. Maybe Harry will do the same.

Hopefully discourse can continue and reason can the guide as opposed to “if even one life is saved...”

Here are a couple examples of considerations I don’t hear folks talking about, and suspect would just enrage those here who are so sure about everything that should be done and to who (whom?).

https://tinyurl.com/uj539o4

https://tinyurl.com/wpwnf6p

Cheers,
Kirt

[Guest]

Is there any chance there is a correlation between those who refuse to acknowledge man's impact on climate change and those that refuse to accept our need for a world wide quarantine?

It sure sounds like the same mumble jumble. The same silly individual rights over the group rights argument. The same disregard for consequences. The same I know better than you-ism. As if they suffer from the same malady...

[randomq]

quote:

---

Originally posted by knieft
https://tinyurl.com/uj539o4
https://tinyurl.com/wpwnf6p

---

I checked out your links. While there is a lot of variability, please consider these points:

1. Everywhere this has taken hold, ICUs and respirators are being filled at a much higher rate than the seasonal flu. This not only has an effect on the old and vulnerable that might already be at risk, but anyone else that happens to have an accident in the next few months.

2. I don't usually hear about inordinate amounts of doctors dying from the seasonal flu. If we lose some percentage of our most experienced doctors and nurses during this epidemic, how will that effect all health outcomes for years to come?

I don't think it is over-reacting to try to get ahead of this, at least long enough for other options (test kits, studies, antivirals, hospital capacity) to scale up.

Other options might include mandatory forehead temperature scans, hand sanitizing, and face masks to enter buildings, including employees. Or test and isolate like in South Korea. We just need a plan other than "wait and see".

[PaulW]

I found this video to be very informative:

https://youtu.be/BtN-goy9VOY

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

We just need a plan other than "wait and see".

I’ve heard “wait & see” is as effective as “thoughts & prayers.” I don’t have any statistics or studies to back that up, but rarely does die scheisse stop hitting the fan when either technique is implemented.