Wal-Mart abruptly cancels Supercenter

[Carolann R]

Once in a while...usually he's pretty tired and just wants his days off. He'll do an oil change for our neighbor who has a Prius...he's one of the two Prius guys here.

Carrie

http://www.carrierojo.etsy.com

“Some people bring happiness ‘wherever’ they go, others - ‘whenever’ they go.” - Oscar Wilde

[Jeffhale]

Sorry Rob but I doubt your summations are correct.


1. All the Super Centers are able to maintain initial low prices because the cost of the development is partially paid for buy ALL taxpayers.

I do not have the actual statistics on this one but, just based on the facts that Wally world is everywhere, suggests this is not due to City or taxpayers supplementing land, resources nor building.

2. A Super Center is not a retail outlet only but also a grocery. Groceries require a larger percentage of full-time semi or skilled workers. The Big Island does not have the people.

You are way off on this one.. In rural Joplin Mo. a city with a population of 40,000. and surrounding metropolis, actually country, or little satellite towns consisting of a total Wally world shopper population, of 150,000. You might be surprised to learn Wally World's got us surrounded. There's three super centers in twon north, west and east. Just 15 miles further east in the county seat a much smaller town is another, super center. Wally's got one more super center 20 miles south, in a town with about 20,000 population.. Moreover they've got us surrounded +++++ Are these stores busy? Yup.. total metro 150,000 and five super centers.

Can Wally support the population in Hilo?? Hell yes. You ever see the parking lot empty?? Only when it's closed.. Wal-mart could build a super center right where they are, but the parking lot is to small. AND there’s plenty people that need the work.

3. Demographics
I think I just covered that..
4. Wal-Marts SuperCenter distribution networks is the best in the world.

Wally world does not re-distribute.. This is Sam Walton's largest advantage.. He didn't move un-sold merchandise, he lowered the price, clearance it. If it did not sell timely, out the door it went.. Not the back, the front. My main Wally world shopping experiences begin in the clearance shelves.. They've all been nearly in the same locations in every Wally word I've been in.. My favorite clearances shelves are in the stores with the lowest volume.. The busy stores move stuff faster and lower the price every two weeks or so. If these clear it out, go to the slowest and there’s plenty, marked down 2-3 times already.. When yaw have a bunch of em around, yaw buy summer in fall, winter in spring, etc..

5. And the most important reason is Wal-Mart is running into problems with their business model.

There is some truth in this, but still major retailers are struggling to compete.. That competition consists of copying Wally's model.. And as far as I can tell, Wally's biggest problem today is Sam aint around no more.. the fundamentals Sam Walton implemented and his vision, ability to roll with the changes, cut losses compromise with employee and customer needs, aint what it used to be..

But union?? Union the reason? Unions are only good if you are in one.. Higher pay, higher health care benefits, all the goodies.. IF you are in one. If not, you are forced to pay higher costs to feed the union.. The unions are some of the most corrupt political groups in our nation.. Part communistic and the rest gangster. Unions are part of the reasons we do not have a general heath care system.. Sam Walton’s vision is not just making money but lower costs for all.. His model shows profit from pennies. Add those pennies up multiply them and foundations are laid for economic opportunity.

There's still many opportunities Wally offers that keeps other competitors in check..

Prices: It is , in case some of yaw have not noticed, but we are a capitalistic country.. Dog eat dog, he who can bring the lowest price is in the top of the latter.. Wally world can make millions, billions a day simply by making one penny on each item.. That’s not competitive pricing that’s cost cutting, low prices.. Crunching those pennies in massive volume spells more for many.

Wally forces the competitors to stay in line..

Returns; Wally give you a return with no questions asked.. Even in 2005 I bought some sandals in Hilo, Made in Hawaii I might add, which wore out in two weeks.. Actually I was pretty rough on em, but they gave my money back.. I bought another pair, good sandals, just not made for trail walking.. On my last visit, a cheep fishing pole.. money back cheerfully.. Wrong sized swim fins, slightly used but exchanged. The list goes on.. They used to have a policy of refunding your money on anything that had a sale tag.. But, people were buying items in yard sales and returning them. ha.. Once, I was at the manager's counter here in Joplin,, this dirty looking fellow brought in his hair and bread trimmer.. It was disgusting, seriously, well out lived it's usage> I could not believe he got a new one.. Still wondering about that??,. But anyways, other stores offer similar returns ONLY because Wally word does.

The expences in Hilo is high ONLY because it lacks competition..

Take lumber as an example… How come I can buy, and ship a whole house worth of materials on the mainland at retail values?.. Ship it privately, or in my own rented container and it will be 20-35% less than anywhere on the island?

When you take into account that Home depot for example, ships massive containers, buys for half of retail, receives discounts on shipping, and you have to pay more than if you shipped it your self?? That is one and only one thing, price gouging and lack of competition.. I can buy a whole house here in Joplin at Lowe’s, ship it out there and still save 10-20% maybe more. Now What’s up with that?? Go to Lowe’s online check their prices in Kona, IF, and that’s a big if, IF they’ll tell you online, because you can take out the cookies they put in your computer tell them you live in the Midwest and then find the REAL price.

People who run over to Costco,, Because they won’t buy a Wally world? that’s a joke.. You are just taking your money and giving it to a similar company.. Brother.

Not having a super center is and will continue to cost Hilo and Puna residences more, it’s that simple.. Competition feeds our economy and keeps the others in check..

I don’t like Wally world’s conglomeration any more than anybody else but I do like competition that stimulates lower expenses.

And if China puts out items costing less than USA made items?? Yaw ever hear of a fat county? The USA is founded on out performing the rest of the world, if yaw can’t roll with the changes, operate and compete with the rest of the world, while demonstrating and demanding capitalistic opportunity, Move over rover, if yaw want to win a race, you have to be the fastest.. China is coming up, India is right behind them, OPEC is getting fat now, and we are or will be left behind if we can not compete.

And pete, I feel for yaw brother, really do, but you need to understand the big picture, not simply life in Puna as you wish.. Puna life ahs been country only because of the volcano, and rough land.. it will always be one of the lowest cost of houseing areas. But life is getting competitive around the whole world. Yaw need this just as much as everybody.





Edited by - Jeffhale on 11/27/2007 06:30:19

[oink]

Jeffhale,
I agree with most of what you said, but not all. Yes, compitition is good and Hilo, like a lot of places has suffered from a lack of it. Wally World does provide that, in spades. Some small retailers don't deserve to survive, but many that provide quality and service simply can't compete against Wally World's purchasing power. The demise of all small retailers, good and bad, does adversly effect the overall quality of life, IMHO. I'm not sure what the answer is. I don't think it's realistic for us, as a nation, to compete with China, India or third world countries, as far a labor costs. I would not want our workers to suffer the same conditions and lack of benefits as them. Free trade is not to our advantage. Tax laws need to encourage exports and ensure that import prices are not too strongly a reflection of the crap conditions and benefits that overseas workers are suffering (yes, often gladly as any job is better than none). I don't really think you want to institute a slave class in this country so that we can compete in world markets. We are a huge market. If our domestically produced and consumed products must reflect higher prices so that our workers can have decent lives, so be it. Exporting our jobs overseas will only result in having to provide public assistance to those displaced workers. I would rather pay higher prices than higher taxes. You will pay one way or the other.

As for hardware items found in Home Depot etc. I have found that most China goods are crap. I have bought brass plumbing fixtures from Home Depot as they were way cheaper, only to later find that when something breaks, which it will, you can't get parts, as by then they found a different supplier. You must buy a new cheap one. The problem is it's now hard to find the good american stuff.

Yes unions have been known to get out of hand with both demands and corruption. The auto industry being a prime example. Unfortunately employers often unnecessairly cause the formation of unions with unnecessary practices. Then there is the question of why some company officers can make a fortune while leading a corporation as it spirals into the ground. For building supplies, I wonder why no builders form a co-op to bypass the current suppliers if they are gouged so much?

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Bob Orts]

You made so good points. I’ve been on both side of the argument.

I’m an opponent of Big Box Bans when they specifically target just the consumer goods/grocery industry. I believe most of it is nothing but a pure Wal-Mart ban disguised as a Big Box Ban. After all, what’s so different between consumer goods/groceries and appliances/furniture, or clothing/cosmetics? If people don’t want a gigantic box, ban the box, not what that box is selling. If that means no K-Mart, Home Depot, Nordstrom’s, or Sears, live with it.

The area where I’m most often involved in is economic and community impact. I don’t know about Missouri so I called the state and here are some figures they provided on subsidies spent on Wal-Marts. Kansas City spent $9.1 in taxpayer funds on Wal-Marts. Kirkwood spent $5.3 million. Harrisonville spent $2.6 million. Ozark spent $3.5 million. Moberly spent $1.6 million. Cameron spent $2.1 million.

When you look at the figures, this is big taxpayer money being spent on someones ability to buy cheap stuff, not essential sevices. If you add up what Wentzville spent ($7,500,000.00) I hope they got a boatload of Wal-Marts for that money because that $375 from each man, women and child in that city. I’m still adding up the numbers (don’t have the IDC Bond figures or Enterprise zone cost for Wal-Marts) and I’m already at over $45 Million of Missouri taxpayers money being spent to subsidize Wal-Mart's shoppers.

Even more disturbing is the total taxpayer subsides spent on all other retail operations in the state was under $2.1 million. So all the Home Depots, K-Marts, Sears, Winn-Dixies and every other retail store statewide received less taxpayer subsides than what Chesterfield ($2.6 million) spent just on Wal-Mart.

I don’t care how you cut it, but that’s giving shoppers lower cost at the expense of all taxpayers, and it’s an unfair advantage disguised as economic development. How many taxpayers do you think have been told they are supporting Wal-Marts through their taxes? How many do you think would rather see that money spent on let's say police, fire, or education?


Edited by - Bob Orts on 11/27/2007 15:18:49

[PunaLover]

I am thankful for Bob's educating Walmart shopper s Thank you for spreading the realties of the situation.
Mahalo,

KEEP PUNA RURAL,


KEEP PUNA RURAL,

KEEP PUNA RURAL

KEEP PUNA RURAL

[oink]

Bob,
I would be interested if you could itemize one of those city's figures, as an example. Wentzville would be good, as that was where the first Wall-Mart I ever visited was located. It sure wasn't a super version, but that was about 25 years ago. I have some dificulty accepting some of those figures.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Bob Orts]

$1.0 million TDD for road improvements.
$5.0 million municipal bonds for additional infrastructure and overpass improvements.
$1.5 million municipal grant (probbaly also backed by municipal bonds) for site improvements.

The total subsidy was $15,000,000.00 but I only used the State’s numbers of 1/2 for Wal-Mart itself. The remaining 1/2 went to THF Realty. And, yes, I know all about THF but for the purposes of consistency, I felt it was proper to use only those where the "Wal-Mart" name was used. I didn't add THF's subsidies to Wal-Mart's totals.

* Oh, by the way, anyone can contact any state to get this type of information. They are not hiding it from people, just not mentioning it unless asked.

** A Bit more update, the $2.1 million figure for all the other stores does not mean they didn't benefit. That's the amount listed by name, not if given to a developer. That's why I'm not including THF's amounts in Wal-Mart's totals even though it's still all in the family.

Edited by - bob orts on 11/27/2007 18:22:29

[oink]

I'm no expert, and I won't spend much time researching it, but there doesn't seem to be a super center in Wentzville. There is a new one in neighboring Lake St. Louis. That whole stretch, actually the triangle formed by Hwy 70 Hwy 40/61 and the Big Mo has been a boom area for years, with the different communities fighting each other for the tax dollars that development provides. The local cities were having major anexation wars years ago. My memories of Lake St. Louis was that it was nothing but a bedroom community for St. Louis. Essentially just an incorporated housing development with no commercial tax base. They probably bribed Wal-Mart to build there for the future taxes it would generate. They didn't have much local small business to get run out of business. The hell with the neighboring cities. I don't imagine the local government would give huge incentives without cause. Not that graft and bribery are unheard of in Mo.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Jeffhale]

$1.0 million TDD for road improvements.
$5.0 million municipal bonds for additional infrastructure and overpass improvements.
$1.5 million municipal grant (probbaly also backed by municipal bonds) for site improvements.

Look Rob, I am not this Wally world supporter although it may seem this way.. I support competition, plain and simple, whether Wally or Ralf. But your figures are one sided..

You need to add the numbers with balance rather one side of the coin here..

These funds are not expended just to appease Wally World.. The bonds, road improvements are decided upon because the city, town and state are investing in tax returns..

Sales taxes spells big bucks for the city and state, and this IS the ONLY reason these, as you seem to refer to them expenditures are allowed.. However they are not expenditures they are simply investments..

It’s that simple, I do not need figures to support this..

Proper planning and store location appeases the city council, state and fed when sales taxes are the prime expected return.. Cities are corporations just like any company the intrest is generating income.. taxes are the cities income..

Wally or Ralf is given the same consideration..

And Wally World delivers the returns..

Can’t say the same for Home Depot, which is using these funds too.




Edited by - Jeffhale on 11/28/2007 02:08:47

[Bob Orts]

Oink, Wentzville is just a plain Wal-Mart store, not a super center.

Jeff, I don’t disagree with using subsidies to support economic development. The intent of these subsidies was to enable development that would probably not happen without the subsidies. Example, A Petsmart wanted to build a distribution center but the land was located off the major thoroughfare with no utilities. The cost of infrastructure improvements made the development too expensive for the single distribution center. Government stepped in, building a new road and offering tax credits for utility improvements. Within 4 years, 11 new major industries have developed properties in that area along with residual commercial development. The government was not supporting any single operation but rather sparking continual development through these subsidies.

What occurred with Wal-Mart is they played cities against cities (not very community minded is it?) and had them enter into bidding wars to the point the economic impact may not produce any meaningful return. In some cases, this wasn’t even based on a need, just seeking what amounts to a welfare payment for them. They also realized that if they said no to subsidies for Wal-Mart, if Wal-Mart really wanted the store, they had more than enough money to build it anyway.

But, it’s really a moot point now. Many governments have or are closing the single retail store subsidy. They never intended for any single retail store to profit through taxpayer subsidies, and particularly not when there was no overwhelming need for that development. Many communities have now set minimum standards where retail means a mall not a single store. I’ve found many examples where the subsidies have never materialized in any benefit because the amount could not be recouped with the low tax base produced by discount stores. I’ve even seen where millions were lost when the subsidies ran out and Wal-Mart closed the store and moved away before the city saw any positive return, or could start collecting full taxes once the subsidies ran out.