Meeting and Petition for Pesky Helicopters

[Punarebel]

I agree,combining forces would be a good idea.I am tired of all these violations of my personal space.

[gtill]

In the early 70s,people did complain in volcano to fern forest. The overflights were old noisy tour planes, fully loaded aand very low. Momentum was picking up on the issue, when some genius in the back of ff put a bunch off 22cal holes in the belly of a US geodetic survey mapping aircraft flying a grid for volcano research. Any hotdogging is by pilots trying to give the best tour. The only way to keep them in check would be by enforcing airroutes and requiring elevation controls by direction. I think a controlled pattern would be easier to demand than a complete ban, potentially killing a very lucrative trade, which would put the entire gov,city&state aagainst you. The tours would still be spectacular, and safer. I think the safety issue would be the best. Also, to estimate altitude, what is the highest a weather baloon could legally fly from our property? If say 300 feet, figure out how to estimate with some accuracy his altitude, and record it. Station say 10 of these from volcano to keeau, If it appears to the pilots that they are actually being recorded the might think twice. Actual accuracy wouldn't be the key, the perception of the pilot is what would matter. This wouldn't cost squat(mabe 10bucks each with reusable balloons). Plus now the tourists will be going home with pictures of balloons in Puna, and then the question of why,and with 100 from kapoho to keaau to volcano, the press will want to know why, and now someone will listen.

[Darl]

Have been gone for over a week but am back home. Would like to move forward with a meeting after the holiday's. One comment, we are not the only "blue" helicopters as of two months ago. Another operator has brought a Huges 500 to the island which is painted very close to the color of our aircraft. It is smaller and has a very narrow tail boom. It also has a higher pitched sound than the A-Star or Ecostar.

Hope everyone finds all that life has to offer in the New Year.

[Thunderfoot]

Okay,shooting for Jan.28 for the meeting.

[gtill]

Where is the nelson corridor in reference to volcano-hilo hwy, or keeau-pahoa hwy. Is it a suggestion they use it or a reg. If could be made into a reg, that would solve your reporting problems. And this banning all tour flghts, especially over the park sucks. The park can take care of themselves, they 're big boys, and can make the determination what is best for them. Again, a bunch of newbies killing commerce, which is a valuable commodity on this Island. Those working for a living will not like another major job cut for the community. The community will not like tax loss, especially because of a section that pays the least taxes to begin with! Forced controls yes, but a ban NO, I will fight against, and i'm not alone. Many of us don't want to be the slick outsiders who will show you dark dummies how to live. I hear some of the worst of them on this thread! Aloha!

[Thunderfoot]

If you read the entire thread some of your questions will be answered.As far as a bunch of newbies,well,you are far from the truth on that one.AGAIN,I have been here almost 30 years,yep,guess I am a newbie,if you have a very askew definition.Other Board memebers have been here 30 and 50 years,so,whatever.And by the way,the property tax base is far greater than the taxes collected from the air tour industry.A commercial for profit venture can not abergate the rights of citizens to enjoy their properties and serenity[I guess you don't care about civil liberities?]Also,we do not want to ban all flights,just those over the VNP and sacred sites,on the Big Island.[By the way there are 2 million visitors to VNP every year,with 24,500 air tours.Also,air tours are not a part of the natural Park experience.Also many complaints come from park goers who get disturbed by them.Also,the parks are there to preserve the widlife and natural park environment,where air tours are not suppose to fly unless they obtain permits.The amount of permits issued are unreasonable.I personally have seen distrupted hunting patterns by the overflights to the hawaiian hawk.I guess they don't count in your book,huh?]We aren't after Haleakala, Maui,their biggest operation here in Hawaii. There are already laws exisitng to enforce noise,saftey etc...Air tours were banned from Rocky Mountain National Park in 1996 when 26 people were killed in a mid air collission.I guess deaths don't matter to you either?The statistics show approximately a crash a month.We would love for the air tour companies to stay in a selected corridor,but no one seems to know where the Nelson corridor is,and they wouldn't stay in it anyway,or they would be doing it now.The FAA told me I was a mile from the corridor,and I am in Fern Forest on the last road.So,if you opt for the "pretty view syndrome" go ahead,but don't think you are going to bully and name call to stop our agenda.It is obvious you don't have the problems that alot of us are experienceing or you would be singing a different tune.Get your facts straight.Be sympathetic to those people experienceing problems,many have severe terminal illnesses,just as a good neighbor.By the way,the last two nights they have been flying past 8pm.,and started today before 8am.The night before last ,an aircraft came so low,at night over me,that I literally woke up thinking I was under attack.I almost ran outside my door wiaitng for a bomb to drop.Then I realized it was just an aircraft.It woke me up out my sleep.So,you can disagree.By the way,since you don't mind all the air traffic,where do you live so I can tell em to fly there instead!!!!!!!!!!!

For those interested,our website is:
http://www.freewebs.com/caoahawaii/

[gtill]

Thunderfoot, I found the Nelson Corrridor back on page 8, it is supposed to be somewhere between Eden Rock and FFVE, which would be smack over your head. Further explanation dropped it to between Eden Rock and Mountain View school! Why have you folks not better explained this, It would be a lot more pertinant than everybody's emotional nitpicking tirades,which is why i hadn't read it all. And 500' is the legal low over homes. The mandatory use of the corridor would solve most of the problem, as any incursion would stand out! A recommended corridor wouldn't cut it, mandatory is the word! Also altitude direction, 1000' in and 2000' out. And direction controls in the park, clockwise, or counter clockwise. I think the park can make their own decisions, if they are getting constant complaints, they can act on them! No i won't support a ban, on all flights! Controls yes ban no. Trust and verify! Some of you are calling the passengers greedy. A complete ban will reduce the people who see any real lava action to the young and healthy , Many folks can't walk the mile plus on chain of craters road against the vog. Do only those in top shape deserve a glimpse,of the hot stuff, how about kupuna, they aren't deserving? Talk about greedy, self centered and self righteous, like the sierra club, old, crippled or unfit need not enter. Note to Daniel who talked rocket and balloons, balloons ok anytime to 150' to 500' with airport notification. this permission would result in a NOTAM, notes to airmen, and why they're they're there! Please no rockets, ever heard of Homeland Securty, harmless or not.
Green balloons marking the corridor, red lining the subdivisions from keaau to volcano. would give a reference for pictures and make the pilots aware they're being watched! Mabe even picket the tour office as the passengers arrive, PLEASE dont fly over our our homes, babies sleeping. Active measures addressing control, not an oughtright ban. Slightly off topic but pertinent. The overflight rules near the grand canyon, now limit any real views of the place to the fit, and healthy. The northwest island ban limits the experience to tenured professors, "special" people like politicians, sierra club officials and UH students who we subsidised us. You tell me that a distance regulated tour boat (superferry), carrying 500 passengers who pay a 20$ donation above the fare to help fund barges for cleaning opala, would destroy the north islands environment? However, keep out the Whale Killing Foundation! Bans belong in Cuba, North Korea, China etc not Hawaii!

[Thunderfoot]

No that isn't the Nelson corridor.That is inaccurate,and several suggestions were made by people,none of which turned out to be the one.The FAA said it was a mile from me,and they have actually been out to the Native American Center.I will ask Darl at our meeting on the 28th.And 500' is not the only legal altitiude.There is 1000' and 1500' in certain areas.It depends on if it's urban or agricultural.Also, different laws have different levels,and the only one that uses 500' is green harvest.And for the record,the only represenatives from the CAOA here on Punaweb,r myself and David Rainwater.So,comments about rockets or other radical diatribes are not a reflection by/of the CAOA,and are of individuals expressing themselves.If anyone is in an emotional tirade,it is you.Calm down.Not everyone is going to agree with us,and that is life.I do like your idea of the ballons though,u buying? Also,we are already planning a picket,we just don't write everything in here.[Also,seems you have a personal problem with the word ban.Sounds like a control defiant disorder.I am seriously concerned for you.You might want to see someone about that,if nothing else,your blood pressure has to be way up;and that is on me as a personal observation,and not the CAOA]Plus,You didn't address the issues of deaths,or civil liberties,or noise,or wildlife etc... Some things are more important than money and a pretty view.You are starting to sound kinda shallow.Oh,yeah,u forgot to tell me where u live,so I can send the flights over u,since u seem to like it so much.

[Punarebel]

I have to agree with Thunderfoot on this one."There are some things that are more important than money and a pretty view".Hope you don't mind quoting you.

Just because some people are upset about the helicopters doesn't make them dark dummies.Boy,I could go several directions on that one,lol.Just because they may express themselves with passion,doesn't mean this topic is the only thing in their lives,nor does it mean they are dark dummies.It might be that in human nature,people are more likely to respond to and be louder about what displeases them ; more than what pleases them.Human nature,a funny thing,and not funny ha,ha, but funny peculiar.And that includes myself.Everyone is different/peculiar and there is nothing wrong with that.In fact what a boring place this would be if we were all the same.[:D][8D][]

[gtill]

Thunderfoot, I apologise if my tone got nasty, i'll tone it down. I hold on most points however. By newbie, i mean people who come here and try to change things without looking into why it is so, or putting the onus of say, dumping all on locals, when the trash in the subdivisions is from whom. Nor am i trying to bring industry to the the subdivisions. I live on NS oahu, have since i came here in 64 always worked at the airport. Moved to FF in 71, lived there till 83, needed to work, washed out!.................. Tf, that expression, newbie is not being used toward you. If you remember NS oahu, "keep the country country". That slogan has stopped any job opportunity for local kids to stay there. It was instrumental in closing sugar because of burning (enviros), because the once every 18 months fires and dust. Ag is somewhat messy. Same from kuilima to kahuku, all cane. The plantations owners had wanted to stop cane for a long time no, money in it. The state wouldn't allow it because of jobs, and the taxing power on their properties kept it going. Then came the enviro conscious ones, who didn't like smoke or dust even only once a year. The TTCC slogan resulted in virtual ethnic cleansing. hard to spot a brown face except for some surfers. When kuilima closes, same thing will happen in kahuku. By the way, my wife's a kahuku grad. The same scenario has been repeated islandwide. The early albesia cutting by Lava Tree road addressed in the albesia thread is another. Have you heard protests on kauai over the new hotel coming up, or Bette Midler cutting down a small forest to improve her view. H ow about Oprah on maui. How many local folks will be able to afford the new tax assesment, no complaining about that, but save the whales, and stop a new option for shipping and travel. Notice maui is expanding it's routes to twice daily. Mabe 100 cars in and 100 cars out aint so bad, and i'd bet an unemployment increase put pressure to backing off! If big oil had have been stopped there wouldn't be a whale left today to worry about. This could go on and on, my point is a ban removes any potential benefits, controls yes ban no. Civil rights are much defined by EEO. race, religion, national origin, DISABILITY and AGE! Based on what one CAN'T help or change! Think this might pertain. For one, AARP's huge membership and lots of travellers also, very active I'm a senior, how can I see it any other way...............
I agree with you about the mentioned above fireworks as a deterrent, that was derived from an earlier post on this thread. Even mentioned as a deterrent could backfire big time It did before................................I am going to talk to some people about balloon reg. will get back on that. I did a bit on it in a way previous post. Kiteman migh have some ideas, they're much the same thing, just different lifting power. Again, didn't mean anything derogatory, hope this shines some more light on my take. And yes, I would back the first 10, balloons, string and gas.