Posts: 990
Threads: 22
Joined: Dec 2007
The outside bouys, or FAD(fish aaccumulation device) have been the most popular state project for fishers!
Big piles of clean but heavy rubble down deep with a 30+" bouy ,moored to it
Everything from bottom feeding ahi to top cruising mahi are around the FADS, which provide boatloads of fish every week, and have for years!
Now that gas is so high, not as many boats are going out, so they'll get even better!
Some of our dive clubs go out by them to spear the biggies(mostly skindivers)!
Gordon J Tilley
Posts: 6,214
Threads: 354
Joined: Feb 2006
What happened five years ago & what can happen today are night & day for legislation.... 5 years ago there would have been no precidence for a boat to get an EIS, now there is.... The cost of the EIS is the huge ticket item. They start in the 100's of thousands & climb.... Superferry will probably be the leader in costs, if the EIS is ever finished (started???)
AR's used to be no action items.... think of the studies that are being looked at on the breakwall that is placed on top of Blonde Reef in Hilo .... The breakwall is footed at 10-20', yet it may effect the circulation of the entire bay.... The STUDY to try to determine if there is an effect is well into the 100's of thousands, and not finished.....
Cost to determine the effect of an AR that will allow consistant surfing?????? Your guess (mine is - not gonna happen in today's EIS climate)
Posts: 990
Threads: 22
Joined: Dec 2007
Sorry to get off the surfing topic, but where deepwater reefs are easy, inside reefs would have to be built to worst case scenario, and then not be enough! Consider what north swells can be, 25+foot, and wrap past Keaukaha, South swells can also get pretty huge, and not just during hurricanes! Plus Kapoho , south has a coastline that tends to cave in a lot!
Waikiki,is essentially a made beach, most all the top sand came from California originally, then Waimea bay and wherever they could find sand!
A couple 10, mabe 20 million would be a good start! Time to start fundraising!
Gordon J Tilley
Posts: 806
Threads: 50
Joined: May 2006
Very interesting.
Mahalo to all for the great insights and info.
Aloha!
quote:
Originally posted by Kahunascott
1. Actually it doesn’t damage the oceans floor. It promotes the growth of corals and provides sanctuary’s for many of the oceans wildlife. New life to old areas by adding structure to where there isn’t any. 2. Florida has had an artificial reef program for years and very sucsessful. Besides the promotion of wildlife it promotes recreational diving and surf areas. It seems that you have an opinion on every post on this forum. 3. I scuba dive on this side of island once a month with our club and can testify to the deterioration of the coral reef and fish....
1. How can dumping "un-natural" stuff on the ocean floor not cause damage? Remember, the Earth is covered more in water then land. If dumping "un-natural" stuff on the ocean floor was a good solution, then we would be doing it on larger scales then just a few "projects".
2. I really hate it when people say this is how it's done on the mainland. Two complete seperate oceans, and from the numerous links I have read over the last hour... Florida has begun rethinking these reefs.
3. The die back you may be seeing in Hilo Bay and the outlying parts of it... may be the results of cane pollution that Hilo Bay got filled with many generations ago.
-------
Lower your expectations and be ready for anything.
Posts: 990
Threads: 22
Joined: Dec 2007
Damon, when they make reefs, they don't use old stoves and fridges, it is mostly busted concrete, re bar etc! On the near shore drops(airplanes off Waikiki), everything is purged of toxins before placment,and the things are full of marine life!
Concrete is basically coral or blue rock, and Iron is quite natural as is aluminum, stainless steel etc!
The most prolific FADs have old cars (drained and basically stripped!), cables full of tires etc, and they caught hell from the enviros because of it, so no more! But there has never been any proof of pollution, and the fish are fine!
Blacktop is totally banned! And I'll confirm there was a problem with escaped bagasse north of the river! There were mountains of it on the reef, some places over 20 ' thick! I suspect what KScott is seeing are gradually recovering reefs, if you can even see reef!
Gordon J Tilley
Posts: 773
Threads: 83
Joined: Dec 2005
Damon your latest post shows how out of touch you are to the real life area of the Pacific Ocean shoreline really is, keep on reading your articles.
I haven’t mentioned Hilo Bay as an area of discussion; most of our dives are in the Pacific around Richardson’s.
What do you think the ocean floor looks like at 50+ here, oh that’s right you haven’t dove here but yet you some how know? It’s sand or lava and no coral and very little marine life. Not much to hurt here just the possibility of promoting new areas for life to start again. Oh and did I say recycle old stuff instead of sending it to the land fill.
And when I talk about south Florida I’m talking about the Keys. Again my experience (not reading about) over 10 years of diving the same reefs supports my position. I dove the Spirit of Miami the first week it was placed at 85’ in Biscayne Bay off Miami. (Gutted jetliner) 3 years later it was crusted over with coral and hundreds of fish called it home. Prior to that it was a sandlot.
Let’s see an island in the ocean and while there are many unique things here on the BI it’s still an island in the ocean.
I promote any type of artificial reef for marine life as well as recreational use.
I can’ wait to see what link your going to use to rebut my post, get a life and come with us for a dive and then you can intelligently post without using someone else’s opinion. You are more then welcome to come dive with us and see for yourself.
"Many dreams come true and some have silver linings, I look for my dreams and a pocket full of gold" Led Zeppelin
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it cost when it’s free...now here come the taxes.....
Posts: 2,402
Threads: 145
Joined: Apr 2005
PW had this discussion a year or two ago. I find it a fascinating topic, yet I don't dive yet!
Here is a site that is very interesting to me about artificial reefs
http://www.reefball.org/index.html
And here is an EPA overview of reefs, like old military ships used to create fisheries
http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/habitat/artificialreefs/
Enjoy!
mella l
mella l
Art and Science
bytheSEA
Posts: 15
Threads: 1
Joined: May 2008
Well it seems all us humans are to blame for the destruction of our planet. I bet you drive a car, create waste, and contribute to greenhouse gases just as much as everyone else. The government doesnt care if we plunge our world into a barren overheated desolation. Why don't we all do the world a favor and just finish ourselves off. [  ]
quote:
Originally posted by Damon
quote:
Originally posted by Kahunascott
1. Actually it doesn’t damage the oceans floor. It promotes the growth of corals and provides sanctuary’s for many of the oceans wildlife. New life to old areas by adding structure to where there isn’t any. 2. Florida has had an artificial reef program for years and very sucsessful. Besides the promotion of wildlife it promotes recreational diving and surf areas. It seems that you have an opinion on every post on this forum. 3. I scuba dive on this side of island once a month with our club and can testify to the deterioration of the coral reef and fish....
1. How can dumping "un-natural" stuff on the ocean floor not cause damage? Remember, the Earth is covered more in water then land. If dumping "un-natural" stuff on the ocean floor was a good solution, then we would be doing it on larger scales then just a few "projects".
2. I really hate it when people say this is how it's done on the mainland. Two complete seperate oceans, and from the numerous links I have read over the last hour... Florida has begun rethinking these reefs.
3. The die back you may be seeing in Hilo Bay and the outlying parts of it... may be the results of cane pollution that Hilo Bay got filled with many generations ago.
-------
Lower your expectations and be ready for anything.
quote:
Originally posted by Kahunascott
Damon your latest post shows how out of touch you are to the real life area of the Pacific Ocean shoreline really is,........
...... You are more then welcome to come dive with us and see for yourself.....
I'm glad someone who uses a moniker of "kahuna" would say I'm out of touch with things. [B)]
Using the word Kahuna as your nickname and reading other posts that you have written, leads me to believe that you want to help... but just don't know how.
I may go diving with you guys sometime... but for now... I'll spend my time throwing net and fishing the way my ohana has for many years before haole style diving existed in Hawaii.
I've read more about artificial reefs, and there are both pros and cons about them.
As the topic is regarding making artificial reefs just for Surfing.... Once again... I will say... why try and mess with mother earth for personal enjoyment?
Find somewhere else more compatible for your surfing style if you don't like what is presented to you.... No need destroy natural things just to surf!
-------
Lower your expectations and be ready for anything.
|
