HPH -Free Spay & Neuter for Feral Cats

[PaulW]

That is precisely my point. People see feral cats differently from other pests.
What is more likely to have an effect, changing people's perceptions or making
use of these perceptions to help solve the feral cat problem?

You're not convinced TNR works. So we shouldn't try it? The current strategy
does work? Then what's the problem?

[mella l]

The Waipili person who started this thread certainly created a firestorm and disappeared - they need to get back on here and defend their position.

I have met the Waipili person on two occasions and I don't even live there. Both times I delivered a few supplies from the mainland to help out.

My take is that this is a very sincere and caring person, trying to make a profound difference for the flora and fauna; a native of the land, with sparse resources, including a computer. So please be patient.

Sorry forgot I posted the interesting article from down under!

mella l

[mella l]

Here is the east side group, which does work in coordination with Advo cats sharing resources ect.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/hphhawaii/

mella l

[MarkP]

It may be that effective alternatives to TNR programs have too much emotional and political baggage to ever get off the ground as public policy. On that front I concede defeat. TNR programs may be more effective than doing nothing if you focus on limited areas. What sticks in my craw is being expected to participate in a denial fest when it comes to the nuts and bolts of how TNR is supposed to work. Mainly TNR compels people to not feed feral cats in an irresponsible manner. Organizations that support TNR usually urge people not to feed ferals outside of an organized TNR program. That is their main contribution.

The vacuum effect is true for small areas and it is true precisely because there is a very high population of cats outside the study area. TNR therefor does not break the cycle of reproduction or lower cat populations when you consider the entire population of cats. It can not. If it did then the fundamental condition necessary for the vacuum effect to occur would not be present. It is inherent in the theory that regardless of how many cats you sterilize there are more out there, that cats are territorial, and that the cats that are fed are holding places in the ecosystem that would quickly be taken if those cats were removed. It is inherent in the theory that only some cats get the good treatment and there are more cats out there whose population is being held in check only by lack of resources.

The general public is not ready to support the removal of cats at the rate required to really get the job done and TNR is much easier to sell as a policy that is humane at least on the surface. It primarily addresses destructive behavior on the part of people although it leaves the cats in place with only minor control of their destructive behavior. I agree with that. Don't try to sell it as anything else. The arguments don't hold water and you will lose me. I have already stated in other threads dealing with illicit drugs that I believe in harm reduction. TNR is harm reduction. It is not a solution.

[oink]

We had most of this whole conversation a year or two ago. I still vote for the lead pellet sterilization program.

ps: I like cats and have and almost always have had a cat. Mine is neutered and lives inside. For strays I'm a realist. I like native wildlife better than stray cats.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[waipili]

First let me be clear that the the cats you all refer to as feral are really abandoned, and I call them domestically betrayed by humans. For over 10 years, hundred thousands of dogs and cats bodies lay in our land fill, healthy animals killed because there were not enough homes for them and because of the caveman - outdated, uneffective, and quite costly round up kill mentality that have never, never been the LONG TERM SOLUTION!!! And you are paying for this with your county tax money. Here are some figures - HIHS 2003 - Intake 14,406, Redeem 788, Adopt 1,988, Animals Euthanized 11,258. HIHS 2004 - Intake 14,106, Redeem 807, Adopt 2,101, Animals Euthanized 10,929. HIHS 2005 - Intake 14,633 Redeem 1,043, Adopt 2,161, Animals Euthanize 11,351, HIHS - 2006, Intake 13,975, Redeem 1,984, Adopt 2,145, Animals Euthanized 9,728. HIHS 2007 - Intake 14,600 Redeem 974, Adope 2,587, Animals Euthanized 10,922.
Why do we have an animal overpopulation? - Because we do not have an affordable or truly low cost spay and neuter program offered to the community. I do not understand how any company can kill the majority of its customers and still get millions of our county tax monies. Lets look even closer at the Keaau HIHS numbers, and really understand that this is not HIHS problem its ours - we need to take ownership of what is going on, see its failure, and demand changes. We need better spay/neuter programs. Keaau HIHS numbers - June 05, Just one months totals - 238 dogs and 550 cats euthanized. June 06, Keaau HIHS - 212 dogs and 444 cats euthanized. June 07,Keaau HIHS again just one months total - 201 dogs and 406 cats euthanized. Just look at the numbers for the last 10 years, again, round up kills does not work, we are cemented into a cruel uneffective and more costly catch and kill program. It is time that Hawaii comes into the 21st Century like other cities across this Nation is doing as well as other countries like Rome, etc. And that is TNRM, or Trap, Neuter, Return, and Managed. Manage means that a cat caregiver is keeping track of the colony - that includes Spay & Neuter, feeding, making shelter/feed stations, defleaing, worming, and medicating when necessary. The areas where the cat colonies are maintained are designated areas only, and not in bird areas. Let me assure you, that it has long been studied and proven that the bird decline population comes from their feeding area and nesting area demolished by humans for homes, business, roads, complex -

Protect Animals Rights:Kindness, Love & Respect

[waipili]

Recently, my neighbors hen and chicks came over to my property and my dogs and cats were bewildered by these 2 legged creatures. My animals never harmed a feather, but just watched. Worried for my animals safety, I caught the fowls and returned them back to my neighbor. You see, chickens are famous for pecking at animals eyes, resulting in severe eye damage that leads to blindness. The conversations have been so one sided that I'd thought it important to state. Cats do not go after chickens because the chicken exist. Another point, on my grandparents farm in Kamuela, the chickens where contained in a huge area for their protection. Here in Puna, we are blessed with hawks and owls, and they sure do love to go after chicks, and I hope no one shoots these wonderful birds!!!! Well fed cats in a TNRM colony do not climb trees to go after birds, but I see rats all the time do. The rats will climb a thin trunk Ohia Tree straight up, get into the birds nest for food. If any fledgings are in the nest, the rat by movement alone will bounce the fledgings out. The rats here in Puna are quite aggressive, I have heard allot of stories of the damage they do, including to my neighbors house across the street. Not afraid of people, and kept eating into the wall to get into the kitchen pantry. They now have a cat and no more rat problems. If a archaeological study was done at our landfill a 100 years from now, they would surely think because of the finding of hundreds of thousands of animal bodies that our society was sacrificing these animals in some type of ritual. That ritual is ignorance of catch and kill, instead of embracing Spay/Neuter and a TNRM program policy for felines.

Protect Animals Rights:Kindness, Love & Respect

[JWFITZ]

Pro or against, it would be worth reading this brief presented to the fish and wildlife service that reports that in many jurisdictions TNR policy is illegal.

http://www.law.ufl.edu/conservation/pdf/feralcat.pdf

[lquade]

Isn't man an amazing animal? He kills wildlife - birds, kangaroos, deer, all kinds of cats, coyotes, beavers, groundhogs, mice, foxes and dingoes - by the million in order to protect his domestic animals and their feed. Then he kills domestic animals by the billion and eats them. This in turn kills man by the millions, because eating all those animals leads to degenerative - and fatal - health conditions like heart disease, kidney disease, and cancer. So then man tortures and kills millions more animals to look for cures for these diseases. Elsewhere, millions of other human beings are being killed by hunger and malnutrition because food they could eat is being used to fatten domestic animals. Meanwhile, some people are dying of sad laughter at the absurdity of man, who kills so easily and so violently, and once a year, sends out cards praying for Peace on Earth.
David Coats, Old MacDonald's Factory Farm[V]

[oink]

I yam what I yam!

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.