fights in the high school

[Bob Orts]

It is not the job of schools to provide protection to students unless you are in favor of higher and increase administrative cost and staff to provide that security. Schools are responsible for demanding increase police presence in the school to provide that security. Schools are for education, the Police are for protection. If armed police officers are required in schools to accomplish that mission, accept what needs to be done. If that gives a negative impression of local Puna schools, well, you know.. If the shoe fits!

I respectfully differ from Blake's comment about Boy's will be boys as not being an excuse. Not that I disagree with his point, but with the person. It's not that boys will be boys that's the problem, its Parents will be Parents.

If you ever sit through a juvenile court arraignment proceeding you will see that same nonsense over and over again. Kids are paraded before the judge and their crimes explained. But when it comes time for the parents to have a say, their child, with 20 previous arrests, is really not at the fault. Parents will blame the schools, the neighborhood, the other kids, TV, rap music, classical music, social workers, the system, the man, the man's dog, the President, US Congress, the color of taxis, salt in foods, the color of his underwear, the State, the Chinese placing mind control drugs on iPods, too much sports, not enough sports, homework, Vietnam, Snickers bars, the clergy, Somalia pirates, and too much Yellow dye number two. They blame everyone but their child for the crimes.

Start holding parents personally accountable for the conduct of their kids. And, if those parents can't control the child, lock the kid up until eligible for the military. Until that is done, expect what happened to happen again.

Let’ stop blaming the schools and start blaming the kids and their parents.

[DickWilson]

I agree with almost all you say Bob, with a couple of exceptions. The school staff is usually first on the scene and should take appropriate action, including testifying in court. The administration needs to come down like a ton of bricks on anyone instigating a fight. First offense 9 day suspension. That way on the second strike they're out. period. And having been in the military when judges used to dump their trash on us, I'm opposed to the idea of sending Hawaii's or any other states failures into the military. Unless of course we go back to the way it was when I first went in and a sergeant could take a punk out back for some one on one intensive counseling. That worked fine, but now we have a kinder, gentler military saddled with trash that someone has to work hard to get rid of. Rant, Rant.

dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"

[Blakeyboy1]

I cannot say I disagree with all that you say either Bob. In fact I agree with most of it. I do think it is parents saying boys will be boys that is the point I was trying to make. I am not even sure of the solution but I am sure that tolerance by the school system is not cool. Violence towards others needs swift and consistent action which probably should be expulsion from the school.

-Blake
http://www.theboysgreatescape.blogspot.com/

[Bob Orts]

Dick, I agree the military shouldn't be the dumping grounds for these kids, but they should be one of the authorities for release. They serve their full time in jail unless they are willing to enter military service. If they do well and change their life, that's good for society. But if they screw up, back to jail.

Blake, the school is taking action. They are suspending those involved. They are working with the police to identify everyone involved so arrest can continue to be made. Unfortunately, school procedures and policies (often crafted by parents) makes it difficult for schools to just throw a student out. All sorts of rules apply to schools before they can legally deny education to a student.

If it were up to me, I would make school attendance a mandatory function with a schedule of suspension, expulsion, and penalties for infractions that doesn’t require administrators to jump through so many hoops. Schools and teachers are there to educate. If a student wants to engage in disruptive behavior, let's stop trying to force it upon them at the expense of all the others who do want to learn. They don't want school, put an orange reflective vest of them and during school hours they are cleaning streets, beaches, public toilets, and washing public buildings. Make it an offense to skip, disrupt, or otherwise engage in disorderly conduct as a student in school. And it’s not some pleasant hand holding event.

I am also outright against suspensions and expulsions where the kid has no requirement to do something during that time. All they do is sit at home or go out and get into more trouble. So, if it takes correctional education for some, so be it.

I also believe that parents need to stop defending their kids and start teaching responsibility. If the kids don’t learn that there are serious consequences for violent actions, they are doomed to continue until someone does. Schools need to get out of the business of parenting and social work and get back to the business of Education! But so long as parents blame everyone else for their kids failures, and everyone expects schools to substitute for parenting, the outrageous cost and staffing for non educational purposes will have to be high and people have nobody to blame but themselves.

[DickWilson]

complete agreement on parents whose little darling would never do what they are accused of. Those aren't parents, they're ostriches. I do however blame society for the attitude that prevents a parent from knocking the crap out of some little a**hole who so desperately needs a wake up call. They tell these kids that their parents can't lay a hand on them no matter what the reason. Corporal punishment is not abuse, its preparing your offspring to accept the logical consequences of their actions. We had far fewer problems when a wood spoon applied to the posterior was a favored form of attention getter.

dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"

[DickWilson]

I say again, there is a difference between abuse and corporal punishment. Ever since some idiot decided that swatting some kid on the butt was abuse, we have a mess. For everyone who thinks that swatting a kid on the butt is wrong, this mess in the schools and society is yours-own it. When parents did not hesitate to physically correct misbehavior, we didn't have the behavior problems we do now.

dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"

[jade]

Quote from Bob: It is not the job of schools to provide protection

If I entrust my child to a school it is their job to protect them since I am not there to do that. Keaau High School does not have a campus cop. I had one in my high school (that was several years ago) and it was in a lot better neighborhood. I don't know why they don't. They report over 300 fights a year. I would think that would warrant for a campus cop. There needs to be someone there all the time and yes I would be willing to pay more for the safety of all children.
I totally agree with you on the part that the parents are the problem as well. The problem kids that cause the fights should be suspended for the first offense. Second offense they should be gone. Can you imagine going to work and being afraid that some big guy is going to beat you up everyday. That should not be tolerated. In the mainland they have zero tolerance and instill this in the kids when they start kindergarden. Here fights are acceptable as some sort of rite of passage and even encourage by some parents.

[Guest]

I started a cartoon contest just before this became a big issue. People have been sending in caption to my toon and most refer to Keaau HS. I'll be posting some captions to be voted on later this week.

The Lack

The Lack Toons

[Chuysmom]

Kathy, you are spot on with your reminders of abuse here in Hawaii. I can say from a place of knowing that there is a staggering amount of abuse here in ALL forms by family members (mostly) and non-family members.

And more frequently than not there is heavy drug and alcohol usage by the abusers. Children are taught what they are shown. The awful cycle continues over and over again. What they are doing is nothing short of completely normal and acceptable in their lives.

These parents wouldn't show up to a court hearing or bench warrant, not to mention a PTA meeting. NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Outside of horrible verbal and physical abuses - many of them don't even know what their kids are doing or where they are.

SO, whose gonna give a crap? "It takes a village..."

Thanks guys.

Carrie Rojo

http://ppl.blastoffnetwork.com/carrierojo
http://www.carrierojo.etsy.com

"The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it." Galadriel - LOTR