why does prince charles REALLY matter in PUNA

[tada]

does that mean the feds don't really hate Exon[?]

Other people want to make friends- I just want to make money.
James Cramer

[Bob Orts]

Can someone point me to the documentations where the FEDS require PGTV to sell electricity at a certain rate? I know about the State and County of Hawaii's role, but can't seem to find anything to support some federal mandate on pricing as was stated.

[tada]

where's Rob when you need him[?][?][?]

Other people want to make friends- I just want to make money.
James Cramer

[Rob Tucker]

Am I needed for something?

[Del Pranke]

It is called avoided oil costs. It is a federal program to ENCOURAGE alternative energy plans. In essence, Helco HAS to pay Puna Geothermal the same price as if the energy they are producing is made from fossil fuel. Helco doesn't really care, they are guaranteed a profit from the PUC. Puna geothermal doesn't care, they make more money.


Energy
Dictionary



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

avoided cost, short run avoided cost, long run avoided cost
Avoided cost is the marginal cost for the same amount of energy acquired through another means such as construction of a new production facility or purchase from an alternate supplier. For example, a megawatt-hour's avoided cost is the relative amount it would cost a customer to acquire this energy through the development of a new generating facility or acquisition of a new supplier.

Short run avoided cost refers to avoided cost calculated based on energy acquisition costs plus ongoing expenses. Long run avoided cost factors in necessary long-term costs including capital expenditures for facilities and infrastructure upgrades.

Avoided cost is typically used to calculate a fair price for energy produced by cogenerators and other energy producers that meet the specifications of the Public Utility Regulatory Policies Act of 1978. The use of avoided cost rates for cogenerated energy is intended to prevent waste and improve both efficiency and cleanliness by insuring that fair market prices paid for energy generated from renewable resources

[tada]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Tucker

Am I needed for something?

---

ask Del.
I'm still working on "avoided costs."

Other people want to make friends- I just want to make money.
James Cramer

[808blogger]

yep this is what you get when you have no free market for energy. Wouldn't it be a different place if people could buy and sell energy into the system, and purchase KW at a spot price. Now I am not talking about ENRON because that was criminal, but an honest OPEN system of buying and selling would change the market place entirely. "Off the Grid" is nice but, that fails to be a scalable system, networks increase productivity, hence an electrical "grid" is needed for a modern society, however the structure currently with central production is outmoded and based on the power of these large businesses. I am positive if there was an free market for energry EVERYONE would have windmills, solar cells, etc all over to generate some revenue for themselves, instead the only thing you can do is reduce your bill down to the "legal minimum". the HECO+HELCO+MELCO Cartel has the state and PUC in the palm of their "hands". How else could they get away with the bogus "fuel surcharge" , i mean since they cant raise they KW/h rate without "approval". why does anything outside of PUNA matter? Hawaii? because our government has sold us out to foreign interests and global interests, what these people think actually does matter to us here! If you know anything about the history of Hawaii your should know that outside forces have shaped this place more than internal forces..

[Del Pranke]

The fuel surcharge may come from provisions of the 1978 act. The problem for us locally is that we are on an island. Any energy we produce is not connected to the mainland grid, so we should be exempt from some of the provisions of the federal law, just as some of the Jones act provisions should not apply to us. The problem seems to be that you and I don't have the money to get the attention our own representatives and senators.

[mdd7000]

It is called net metering. There are a handful of states of states that have it. Some allow you to reduce the bill to zero, some to the minimum charge and a few even let you run the meter backwards and get a check back from the electric company. The problem is that when you use the electricity from the grid, you pay retail price and only get wholesale price back when you make excess amounts.

What Enron was supposed to do wasn't criminal. It was their accounting of off-the-books loans and debts that was. The trading of energy and the ability to buy from various providers is allowed in many states already. In most cases, it makes sense for large corporate users to buy bulk electricity and gas from 3rd party providers.

[808blogger]

correct on enron, i was trying to keep it simple, and yes, net metering with a backwards meter is good, but the RATE should be dynamic like a stock market based on supply and demand of energy at that time. Why does energy cost the same at night and the day? why does it cost the same from even hour to hour? There is no reason for it other than to favor the producer and not the consumer, and to make sure the producer consumer order stays the same. The entire system is rigged for the giant energy producer. I agree with the elimination of many federal rules, but in all honesty, the state should ignore them and tell the feds to kiss off but the dont, there is massive outside interest in HECO and its cartel buddies. Its beyond even us as a few people getting the attention of some reps, the entire state is held in check by this, the government is pretty much powerless or well maybe i should say gutless to eliminate all the stupid barriers they create to a free and productive economy.

There were 2 reasons for my very initial post, and ONE of them was to bring out this conversation, granted nothing is going to change, having lots off the grid homes in puna is great but, its also kind of stupid and does not allow for any exchange of the energy. I wish people would see past the view of off the grid as far as energy goes, Now WATER thats a different story, much different than energy.