why do we live(or come)here?

[Kelena]

I was informed when I was under 30 that I should never trust anyone over 30. Now I say I am over 30, but am I to be trusted?? Absolutely not! Thus, I felt free to comment despite the age restriction, Sean.

As for the original theme of this free-for-all, I find as follows: There are 6 billion people on Earth. Only 14,000 of them live in Puna. Therefore, Puna must not be a very desireable place to live. Majority rules! We need to concede the point that Puna is a horrible place to live.

[mgeary]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rob Tucker

As to the basic question of why people come here? In the simplest way it would be because we have the freedom to do so and preferred this location to where ever we came from. Not too complicated really.

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Greetings, Earthlings! My name is Klaas Veratu, and I come in peace![8D]

I'm coming up from my usual lurker/stealth mode because this thread, more than any other recent thread, reminds me why I quit posting on a regular basis here on PunaWeb. I would like to share a perspective which may help. It might not, but if even one PunaWebber gets anything of benefit out of this, then my mission for this day will be accomplished. Following Rob Tucker's signature line of "assume the best and ask questions", I'll put forward a couple of assumptions, then ask a few questions.

Assumption #1: People in general, PunaWebbers in particular, and even the select group of PunaWebbers who have participated in this thread are, by and large, good of heart. I'm an optimist by nature, and I believe that most people I encounter are fundamentally nice. There are exceptions, of course, and everybody, even Gandhi and Mother Teresa, can have a bad day once in awhile.

Assumption #2: The Internet, blogs in general, and PunaWeb in particular, are a major handicap to congenial conversations between ordinarily friendly people. I don't know if it's the lack of visible facial expressions and body language, the lack of simple and fundamental human contact, or what, I can't explain why. But I've seen it here and elsewhere on the 'Net. A comment meant with humor or gentle sarcasm, a mild parody, a simple cultural misunderstanding, or any of a variety of other benign things, which in a F2F conversation would pass without a thought, can get blown WAAAAY out of proportion into a flame war behind the LCD or CRT screen which filters our contact with each other. chrisb483, Rob Tucker, and I think Kathy and others alluded to this elsewhere in this thread, so it's not an original thought on my part, but I took this opportunity to clarify and re-emphasize this aspect.

Assumption #3: People are, each of us, unique, with diverse age, sex, cultural, economic, and other backgrounds which affect our outlook. I think this is a strength, not a weakness, in human interaction. It's one of the reasons why I keep watching PunaWeb, to better learn how people who live or want to live in Puna interact. If you're richer or poorer or healthier or sicker or blacker or browner or whiter or older or younger, or whatever, I'll probably be able to learn something from you and your experiences and perspective, if I take the time to listen with open ears and an open mind.

Question #1: Following the assumptions above, is it possible for everybody to just back away from their keyboard, take a deep breath, and re-focus? Perhaps forgive a little?

Question #2: I'm absolutely not going to take sides on this thread, but I'll ask all the participants whether they can take responsiblity for their part in the escalation of this thread to the level of DefCon4? Not passing judgement, it just seems to me that no one individual by him or herself fired off ICBM's, but several people might have taken a step towards escalation when the opportunity was there to not take that step. My therapist once told me, "Mark, you don't have to attend every argument to which you're invited". Was she wrong? Can we work together to solve the problems islandlvng has pointed towards in the OP, or must we tear each other down over perceived slights?

Question #3: Like President Obama, who was born in the same hospital I was about two years after I was, I don't have to supply a copy of my Territory of Hawaii birth certificate to have a valid point of view here on PunaWeb. Can we all please let go of the silly local/haole/newcomer/been-here-25-years/native Hawaiian/tourist/mainlander class warfare? We're all either here in Puna, or want to be there in Puna. We're all citizens, presumably, of the human race. Can we look to commonalities, find friends and friendship, live aloha?

I could go on, but I think I'll stop right there and go back to lurking. Kumbaya. Peace. Shalom. Salaam. Aloha.

DIVE! DIVE! DIVE! Come to periscope depth!
Aye, aye, captain![8D]

Oh, I forgot. To answer your question, islandlvng, I think Puna is perhaps the most beautiful place on Earth where it is a practical, realistic possibility for me to live. It is not paradise, it is not perfect, but on the whole, it beats all of the other places I've ever lived. And as Rob T. said above, it's not too complicated, really.

Aloha! ;-)

[kani-lehua]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave M

yes yes, the madness goes on. When did i blast Tomk above???? Are you ok dude? Please quote where i did this? As for Glen, I thanked him for the fact that he was one of the few in the beginning to list why he liked it here, and ACTUALLY answer my question. Did you miss that. Go back to page one. Oh, again? when did I blast Tomk??? Lol, making up more nonsense. I'm calln you on it. This is Great! C'mon Dave. Where did i say or Imply that I was Hawaiianer than thou? So worked up your making up lies and posts that never happend. Keep making my points for me. This one really takes the cake though DaveM. Keep em cmon folks! So again DAVE M, I'm calln your BS for everyone to see buddy. This is getting good. Will the real punawebrs please stand up, please stand up haha. And again, all over a question that had no personal shots at anyone in it at all!


Can you read? It was a question???????????????? See that??? It's called a question mark. Look at you blathern on.. And yeah dude, I'm fine.. you're the one with screwd up atitude. Why don't you read back and see your own post where you went line by line commenting on Glen's post only to spin around ten post later... Something to be said for this happyness is within stuff. If this is the real you, you'll never find peace..

Blessings,
dave

"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young

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in islandlvng's defense, dave m, it was chris483 who, "went line by line commenting on glen's post...":

quote:

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chrisb483
Newbie


USA
29 Posts
Posted - 01/10/2010 : 10:09:31
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I could not help but to respond to this one since it is another bad VOG day and find it easier to stay inside then wander out and get a headache.

1. It's gorgeous. Round a corner and inhale sharply at the view.

How long can one do that for before you notice the garbage and the plastics washing up on the shore. And you cannot inhale the view so deeply today because it cannot be seen through the VOG.

2. It's sensuous.

OK, so if you are hedonistic this place is for you. Got it.

3. The heart beats slower.

It depends, yeah? I heard a guy say he got jumped in Pahoa the other night, his heart was beating faster I assure you.

4. Breathing is deeper.

Not on VOG days. But granted, when the air is clean, it is very clean, and is the one thing I will miss.

5. For people over 50, it seems like the entire world is going to hell in a handbasket. This place is going to hell much slower.

I disagree. Hawaii is a canary in a coal mine.

6. Nice fat avocados and adorable, tasty bananas...

Eh...again, just hedonistic.

7. Warm water.

I would rather live in Sardegna. And the water here is SOOOO salty.

8. In case of war, famine or insurrection, this is a good place to be.

Ha, we will wait on that one. I think it would turn into lord of the flies here pretty quick. Each one of you individualists fighting each other.

9. Volcano adds an undercurrent of mostly benign drama to daily life and reminds us daily that we are but a blink of the eye, and that we should start living like it.

It reminds you to start living that way, but people don't. So that was useless.

10. Got water? Puna does.

So does the North West.

11. Green papaya salad lady.

Agreed.

12. Grown much of your own food very easily.

Yes, for now, but have you noticed how farmer's yields have been decreasing steadily for most crops on the island?

13. Turtles, dolphins and tangs, oh my!

This would be great if I did not know about all the septic tanks that leach right into the ocean.

14. The place has its own damn dance, for crissakes.

More hedonism.

15. Attracts iconoclasts.

It is one thing to attack dogma with a cause, another thing to do it cause it seems cool.

16. Attracts individualists and pioneer-spirits. Repels wusses.

Wusses are people who are too weak to share.

17. Attracts artists.

Not good ones.

18. Attracts spiritualists.

No, not really. They are mainly deluded people who think they are spiritual.

19. The place has its own soundtrack. Does Oregon? No.

Not sure what this means.

20. Not very many people.

Yes, see, you do not like people. As do many other people here.

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"a great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

w. james

[808blogger]

I'll keep this simple:

1. don't confuse "local" and "Hawaiian"
2. don't confuse "Hawaiian sovereignty" with "grown here not flown here"

there are many issues that are being misunderstood in this thread. I hope what i said makes sense

[BobH]

Aloha,
mgeary: your Assumption #2: hit the nail on the head with a big thump! And, boy are you right on. The internet has spawned the ability for people to hide behind a keyboard and never be seen.

freestate: My wife and I have lived among the Navajo for 7 years and the Apache for over one year. My wife is Filipino. The Navajo are beautiful people but still tend to accept my wife before they do me but are never discourteous to me. But a "feeling" is there that I can feel. The Apache have little acceptance of anyone including each other.

Our Hawaii experience has been that usually it is younger Hawaiians who are willing to step up and disgrace their heritage in front of me. Older, educated Hawaiians are much different. Unfortunately when you are wanting to sit on a beach it's the younger ones who are there too. But you know what, we respect them and at the same time can have some fear too.

Having said all that I have written in this thread and expressed my feelings and beliefs here, I want to thank each and every one here for being courteous to me. I appreciate that. I have to admit that on some days while reading the forum I ask myself the same questions as was the intent of the original post to the thread. And. Almost every time I enter a discussion, I hesitate for a moment and ask myself, “Do I really want to risk taking a hit?”

Today, I am glad I did because I have met some really great people here in this thread who have the ability to be open minded and basically courteous.

My wife and I remain convinced that there is a place for us on the BI.

Mahalo!




Best!
BobH

[Loren Baker]

BobH,

This is Heidi Baker here, again sneaking in on my husband's registration. (Rob is going to tell me to get my own!)

I think there is a place here for anyone who chooses to accept the life here and join the community. Like we told Oink on another thread, you will be welcomed with open arms by people who truly have the aloha spirit in their heart. People say all kinds of things on these blogs. But it has been my personal experience, that when meeting someone new, everyone is ready to welcome that person or family, unless they are truly socially unacceptable. Which I have only encountered a couple of times in my life.

To island living, stay or go, it is up to you. People are correct, there is no true paradise on earth. Everywhere has a particular beauty, and an underbelly. People are people, is my motto. I don't care about ehtnic background. We all come from a common ancestor, so if you hear or see a person or group berating another person or group, they're just bashing their own cousin. It's just that the connection is is too far back in history for us to know it.

And I will answer your question:

We had criteria, and the area met more of it than anywhere else we could find:

Small town.

By the water.

Reasonbly priced overall.

Very few RANDOM acts of violence. (This place has far more family/friend violence. Actually, any is too much!)

Still in the US. (As opposed to say, Tahiti, with its beauty and perfect weather.)

I hope this helps. If not, then good luck.

Heidi Baker

Loren Baker

[Kapohocat]

quote:

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Originally posted by mgeary...Greetings, Earthlings! My name is Klaas Veratu, and I come in peace![8D]...
Aloha! ;-)

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Slow day at the FS, Capt Mark? lol...

I came here when I was thirty, so I think I can answer the question. Not matter how bad things get here, all I need is a trip to the mainland to remind me why I moved here 21 years ago.

Yes things have gotten worse - but as it was recently pointed out to me - every where has gotten worse. The idyllic memories of places from my 20's no longer exist in reality. I was told Cabo was over run years ago.

Then I listen to my mainland family and friends bemoan the weather in the winter, especially the last few weeks, or the weather in the summer (scorching dry and hot, or hot and flooding) and I think " and it is a pleasant 80 deg today".

Or I go to the Bldg Dept and the supervisor remembers when she was an inspector and remembers the project I am working on from the 80's...

or the vog was bad, and then it clears to a beautiful blue sky.

Or the traffic is bad on Hwy 130 and I remember back to 1980's sitting on the Ventura Fwy with a stick shift going 10 mph for 15 miles....

or I think about all the very good friends I have made here who were so incredibly supportive the last 2-3 months for no other reason than they are just nice people and wanted to help with all my family was going through.

I think about the job situation and yes it may be going back to the 90's when it was hard to even buy a job but look around folks, the situation is not much better anywhere else. Would you rather be broke in Hawaii or broke in, i dont know, maybe Iowa?? Not a tough sell.

A crappy day in paradise is better than any great day almost anywhere else! and for me, that's the bottom line.

[BobH]

Now I will answer the original question.

Josie and I want to live in a climate that is moderate all year and warm, near the sea, near Asia & family; where we can sometimes, late at night when the wind is quiet, the birds are still and if we listen real close, might hear a whale calling out. Making that ancient sound that when first heard sends a chill up your back and then later when the sound is understood, know that the whale calls are powerful messages sent from Above meant to be delivered to those that understand and to others to encourage them to understand …..The kind of sound that when you hear it for the very first time strikes a strand of your DNA located deep inside and forces it to begin to vibrate like a tuning fork placed on an old piano. The ancient tune vibrates and sends each note as the Maker adjusts your internal noise and changes it from chaos to symphony. This can happen in Hawaii……..!

[Del Pranke]

Rural Hokaido?

[rusty h]

i have to agree on many of the reasons given as to why we want to move to Puna.
however the number one of all for us anyways (coming from interior Alaska)would be the weather!

second was the price.

peace