Pointless thread

[robguz]

quote:

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Originally posted by TomK

imagtek,

That's quite repulsive. Your opinion is not a view shared by the observatories and does not help the TMT's cause.

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Absolutely. In fact, polling shows native Hawaiians evenly divided. Nearly half are quite convinced that TMT is worth having and are willing to say so when polled. I'm surprised it is this high in polling given the strong social stigma attached to supporting TMT in this community.

[Guest]

What polls? What data? From what island?

What is the native hawaiian vote like in hilo, puna, kau, hamakua coast, kalapana, waimea, ect Yes ofcourse I would like to know how Kauai's, maui's, and Oahu's hawaiians or general residing residents feel, or vote, on the TMT telescope project. Yet the TMT will be operating permanently on the big islands mountain of maunakea well pass its 2033 current permits if aloud. The needed resources used by the proposed TMT project and its backers or followers will come from the big island(water,electric,waste,roads,limited affordable housing, ect.) The view or obstruction of the extra large telescope will be noticed, or seen daily by the majority of island residents, jmo. So maybe the polls from native Hawaiians and Hawaii island residents should be taken into account separately as well as having a state wide poll?.
The outer islands residents may not know or be up to date with the current issues or environmental battles Hawaii island and its residents are dealing with, tmt related or not? We are again in another state of emergency, this time because of a dengue virus most likely brought in to our third world island by our states promoted world tourism,jmo.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

What polls? What data? From what island?

The results of this poll were posted on Punaweb when first released some months ago. You can find other links if you Google search for "Native Hawaiian poll TMT." Lots of links.

Native Hawaiian and part Hawaiian respondents were split between 49 percent somewhat or strongly opposing and 44 percent somewhat or strongly supporting the project.
http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/...meter.html

"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard

[pahoated]

Polls show 50% of the native or Native Hawaiians agree with the definition of native or Native Hawaiian. 50% disagree.

"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"

[PunaMauka2]

Lol. Kind of illustrates the absurdity of the race-based survey in the first place.

[dakine]

What polls? What data? From what island?

A poll that was commissioned by the TMT that surveyed 613 residence of all ethnicities across the entire state. Which when you figure how many of them were Hawaiian it's a pretty wimpy set of stats to hang a hat on.

From the article linked above by HereOnThePrimalEdge:

"The TMT Observatory Corp. commissioned the study, which surveyed approximately 613 people, aged 18 years and above, by cell phone and landline. The poll quota sampled for key demographic characteristics such as age, ethnicity, gender, and island to match Hawaii demographics based on Census data, with a margin of error at +/- 4 percent.

When asked, "Based on what you have heard, read, or seen, do you support moving ahead with construction of the Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) on Mauna Kea?” the Native Hawaiian and part Hawaiian respondents were split between 49 percent somewhat or strongly opposing and 44 percent somewhat or strongly supporting the project."

And that is not as others would like you to believe a 50/50 split. Elections are won and lost by way smaller margins, and in that poll the nays took it comfortably.

[Guest]

Great homework Dakine, mahalo.
Let's not forget when that poll took place, randomly, well before(Nov), the facts were presented by both sides to our respected courts, or their decisions from those facts presented. A poll today(february)may be quite different? Especially now that people recognize or know their rights or voice was being ignored completely(state), let alone considered, heard, or recorded(yet with no contested case hearing, granted permits were given?). The states (blnr) fast tracking involvement or plan for the TMT, was meant to skip(never sit down at the table with) the many concerned residents, mostly native hawaiian folks, who were (the oppressed opposition) on the other SIDE of this controversial building of the TMT on someone's sacred land.
This is all JMO, or how I see it here. For all that to have happened, The MANY wheels on this TMT vehicle would have had to be greased (very well) by the many TMT BIG Backers,supporter's,and beneficiaries.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

A poll that was commissioned by the TMT that surveyed 613 residence of all ethnicities across the entire state. Which when you figure how many of them were Hawaiian it's a pretty wimpy set of stats to hang a hat on.

How many protectors were ever on Mauna Kea at any one time? More than 613? Not even. Pretty wimpy set of stats to hang a movement's hat on.

"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard

[dakine]

Actually HOTPE on June 24th there were more than 750 protesters on the mountain.

Also you skip over a lot of known, and discussed here, facts. The most glaring of them is the support given by OHA, which wasn't given lightly, or just to the folks on the mountain itself, but to the movement and all it stands for. Add to that the generosity shown by Princess Abigail Kinoiki Kekaulike Kawananakoa and I believe you would find a lot more supporters across the state and beyond then you imagine.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

June 24th there were more than 750 protesters on the mountain.

Do you have a link with that estimate (not from protest organizers)? When I searched Google for "June 24 Mauna Kea" I could only find the small number who were arrested listed in articles from legitimate news organizations.

support given by OHA... Princess Abigail Kinoiki Kekaulike Kawananakoa and I believe you would find a lot more supporters across the state and beyond then you imagine.

The same could be said of the IAU and Neil deGrasse Tyson and... I believe you would find a lot more supporters across the state and beyond then you imagine.


"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard