Pointless thread

[kalakoa]

how the state and TMT backers has tried to avoid the real issues surrounding Maunakea and its Hawaiian people for decades now

Not limited to TMT or MK or the Hawaiians.

State has been successfully avoiding issues since it was created.

[Guest]

Everyone should have a hobby. It keeps you off the stuff.


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You can't fix Samsara.

[Guest]

Good morning hotpe.

Many things could have been picked out or picked apart from that old article from 2001. What I think about Ms Prisciotta's sacred predicament would be hard to explain in words. I feel sadness for her and her Ohana in many ways. I have to wonder why more(much more) has not been protected atop Maunakea, not just her stone or place of sacredness.
I think we have been ignoring or turning our heads to what is pono or has been taken place atop Maunakea over the years. I am upset how things have transpired atop maunakea over the years regarding the astronomies and universities use and protection of maunakea's summit region, it's resources, and traditional or sacred sites of the people before.

Part of the job description's or promises is that after use the land will be brought back to the way it was. I know what does that really mean, and how can that be possible?. Well promises like that should not be made if the intentions are not to keep them, jmo. These telescope projects should be trying not to disturb the natural environments atop maunakea, instead they have been replacing them. The current ways of squashing, exterminating, moving, or ignoring so many little living beings and organism's that live nowhere else than at the summit region of maunakea may need to change. Many are not even understood yet, many may have already seen its demise or extinction from this planet because of these ways. The search is ongoing for hope of finding small lifeforms much like the ones they are so easily exterminating now atop maunakea(like the wekiu bug).

P.S. Some little things on this planet may need to be better understood or given equal attention before we end up like the dinosaur,jmo. Mosquitoes may end up playing a larger role or factor in our planets future or human health and its population. Than eating well, exercising, and global warming put together. Other small things like Fungi and fire ants are also making living and working uncomfortable these days. Should we just ignore or exterminate all small living things for the greater good of bigger living things in this universe?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I think we have been ignoring or turning our heads to what is pono... squashing, exterminating, moving, or ignoring so many little living beings... exterminating now atop maunakea(like the wekiu bug)... Mosquitoes may end up playing a larger role... Fungi and fire ants are also making living... Part of the job description's or promises is that after use the land will be brought back to the way it was.

That doesn't really answer my question which was:

Would you be able to explain to me how Kealoha expects astronomers to maintain a site that she has created? Did she provide markings that would allow others to recognize it as her family stone, and not just one of many stacks of balanced rocks seen around the island?

Also, if you would like to see Mauna Kea returned to it's original state, would that include removing Kealoha's and other aumakua which were built after the telescopes were constructed?


"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard

[Guest]

Nice one hotpe, thanks for asking again.

They (astronomers and university) knew many of these possible sites like hers existed up there, So yes, they should have taken a bit more time, expense, and energy to make sure to ask the proper respectful questions regarding all possible sites,jmo.

Should she have put a larger stone like a headstone instead of many stones?

The telescopes being built atop maunakea shouldn't have changed the traditional Hawaiian practice's that took place atop maunakea before them. Ms Priscotta may have been continuing a long family tradition or following up on a loved ones last wishes? Why should her stones or anyone's for that matter be removed due to the time frame telescopes were being built there?
Jmo here, They(other burial or hawaiian sacred sites) should still be allowed or tolerated today on maunakea like before the telescopes. I don't even think many Hawaiians truly had or picked these sites on the summit region(kapu)due to the serious sacredness and respect they shared of Maunakea,jmo. Then again the TMT was not going to be built on the summit anyway. Maybe increasing the chances of disturbing more of these types of burial sites on the northern plateau just below the summit? Sorry maybe I don't understand your last question?.

Here is another article, a little more recent though. I really like the first picture of the mountain,stars, and hands.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...mauna-kea/

Also resolving these many issues or conflicts while working towards common ground should always be a priority, thanks for the good discussion so far hotpe.

[MarkP]

I feel sadness for Ms Prisciotta as well but only because she has painted herself into a corner where her happiness depends on a pile of randomly arranged rocks. However it should be recognized that she may very well be happy at the moment in the sense that what she really wants is conflict and her little pile of rocks is giving her just that.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Sorry maybe I don't understand your last question?

You had said:
These telescope projects should be trying not to disturb the natural environments atop maunakea

I was wondering if a relatively new altar (Kealoha's) should also be removed because relocating rocks and squashing wekiu bugs with those rocks would disturb the natural environment on Mauna Kea. Mauna Kea was thought to be sacred by Hawaiians many hundreds of years ago, and the common people were not allowed to place an aumakua up there. It has become easy to reach with a car or truck, anyone can now drive to the top. Does that mean every Hawaiian should be allowed to create a shrine, something they were not allowed to do in the past? If so, what if the top becomes covered with rock monuments from extended families, with hundreds, even thousands of family aumakua? How many altars would alter the summit so it no longer reflected the ancient and traditional Hawaiian beliefs that made it sacred in the first place?

"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard

[kalakoa]

On the way to her high-tech job

So ... technology is not desecration if you're on the payroll?

[PaulW]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-35588083

That's how they do it in China.

[Obie]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...astronomy/

This is how it's done on the mainland USA.