Puna Geothermal Fined for Violation

[leilanidude]

Opihikaobob - your paranoia is getting a little too ridiculous.
No, I do not work for PGV or Ormat.

[Frank]

quote:

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Originally posted by ironyak

Originally posted by Frank
quick question...what %age of homes around the pgv plant were built after the pgv plant came on line?

This is not as easy to answer as it might seem:
Bought after HGP-A was drilled in 1976 or began producing electricity in 1982? (HGP-A is immediately nearby as noted above)
Bought after PGV drilling "blow-out" in 1991, or after going online in 1993?

What is "around" the plant? Within 3400 ft? 1 mile? Only in a "down-wind" direction?

Not trying to nit-pick, simply trying to clarify. With some more details, some of us may be able to answer the question.

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Clarification is needed...

Bought after pvg came on line in 1993

Bought within 2.5 mile radius

Number of home sales transactions completed from 1993

Frequency of sales turn over within he 2.5 mile radius would be of interest a well...

[ironyak]

A 2.5 mile radius is quite large and covers most of Leilani and Nanawale, and stretches within a mile of the ocean. Why this coverage size in particular?

While analyzing the few thousand parcels covered is technically doable, it would qualify as a small research project and we are woefully understaffed

These rough Housing Unit numbers are from the 2000 & 2010 census.
Leilani Estates: 474 - 807 (333 new)
Nanawale: 433 - 625 (192 new)

So ~525 new housing units over that 10 years in the most density developed areas. The other parcels within 2.5 miles of PGV are mostly larger ag lots and would add to this number, but not as significantly. Possibly an example of the 80:20 rule.

Hope this helps? I might also crunch some housing numbers on the 1 mile "buffer-zone" consideration if time allows.

[Frank]

mahalo ironyak for all that crunchin...soooo, the folks who are impacted adversely by odor, noise, eye/throat irratation, live how close to the pvg operation?

just trying to get a grip on - "X" number of folks that are affected within "X" miles radius of pvg operation and - stacked up against the data re: the suggested criteria in my previous post for the same given radius is?

don't want to blow any head gaskets trying to figure it out though...know what ya mean with tha whole understaffed thing...your efforts are appreciated

[VancouverIslander]

quote:

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Originally posted by ironyak
A faulty pressure release valve caused 39 pounds of hydrogen sulfide to be released into the air over the course of about two hours without first passing through an abatement system, according to a notice of violation issued by the health department on Thursday.

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Meanwhile, Kilauea (all sources) is currently putting out 200 tonnes a day, or 440925lbs/day. Leilani was built ON the rift zone. The 39lbs from the geothermal plant is nothing compared to what's happening in nature. NIMBYism is not conducive to an organized civil society. I'm sure ironyak is just reporting the facts, but many blow these things way out of proportion with no science to back them up whatsoever. The studies have been done and done and done and guess what? They have concluded there's no significant health risk. If you don't like geothermal, you probably shouldn't buy in Leilani or other nearby properties. I didn't buy there because of the lava zone, but that's just my personal preference, as many (most?) consider it to the best Puna subdivision to live in. One day of Kona wind brings more gas to Leilani than PGV has produced total since inception.

[ironyak]

In the interest of clarity VancouverIslander:
The quotes above are not me speaking, but taken directly from the Civil Beat article.
The 200 tonnes a day from Kilauea is for SO2 (sulfur dioxide) not H2S (hydrogen sulfide) present during the PGV release. Different chemicals with different impacts.
Which studies are you referring to? There were different efforts examining different issues so it's worth trying to untangle the source IMHO

[geochem]

VancouverIslander - did you miss a zero in your number for SO2 - I understood that Kilauea is producing more than 2000 tons per day from all sources - although I now understand that there were errors in the Halemau'mau measurements in the early days of the summit vent that under-estimated the actual emissions by about a factor of 20 or more (as in 40,000 tons per day immediately after the summit vent opened up). See this link: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/hazards/FAQ_SO2-V...1.html#so2

Ironyak: you are absolutely correct - SO2 and H2S are different compounds with different physiologic effects. But: analysis of the eruptive gases at Pu'u O'o have shown that H2S is also present in those gases at a rate of about 5% or so of SO2 - meaning that Kilauea is producing roughly 100 tons per day of H2S (if that 2000 t/d SO2 number is correct). And, more to the point, epi studies have shown that SO2 is associated with increased morbidity and mortality in sensitive populations at modest exposures whereas the recent Bates and Reed studies, that I posted links to earlier, show that exposures to modest levels of H2S (that are still 100 times higher than the highest exposures associated with PGV emissions) are associated with therapeutic respiratory and neurologic effects rather than(so-far)detectable adverse effects.

edited to add HVO link on SO2

[ironyak]

Setting aside the Bates study for now, a couple more quick clarifications.

The 200 tonnes SO2 is from East Rift Zone estimate part of the daily update.

http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/activity/kilaueastatus.php
"The most recent measurement of sulfur dioxide emissions from all East Rift Zone vents was about 200 tonnes per day on January 7."

As for volcanic venting of H2S, USGS has said that most of that is quickly decomposed by reaction with SO2 unlike geothermal areas.

http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/arch...08_25.html
"An interesting chemical relationship exists between the sulfur dioxide and the hydrogen sulfide released by the volcano. These two gases react quickly (within minutes) with each other to produce sulfur particles and water vapor. Both of the products of this reaction are odorless and are less toxic than either H2S or SO2. Most of the hydrogen sulfide released in eruptive areas on Kilauea is consumed and is converted to sulfur particles by this process, because there is much more sulfur dioxide than hydrogen sulfide coming out of the volcano. This is why you seldom smell hydrogen sulfide at the summit caldera or along the eruptive east rift. The volcano has its own hydrogen sulfide abatement system!

Geothermal areas, by contrast, have no large quantities of SO2 available for reaction, so any H2S released is removed by reaction with oxygen in the air to form sulfur dioxide, a process that takes a day or more."

[VancouverIslander]

Geochem: apologies, I had quoted the Pu'u'o'o/East rift zone numbers mistakenly. Kilauea is apparently 4500-7600 tonnes/day recently.

Just call me Mike

[ironyak]

Frank - the question of possible impacts and distance from PGV is an important one. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be a clear source that I have found to provide a complete answer.

For the Iselle event, Puna Pono Alliance gathered feedback from residents who complained of health effects and created a map seen at the bottom of this page. More official sources for this, or other, PGV incidents are of interest.
http://punapono.com/index.php/ts-iselle

VancouverIslander, geochem, others?
Volcanic SO2 emissions recorded by USGS are not the same chemical as H2S which PGV was fined for. The H2S that is released by the volcano is quickly decomposed as opposed to H2S from geothermal areas. Agreed so far?