Need generator expert

[Bullwinkle]

or do the primitive pete test - swap the legs and see if issue moves with the leg.... my hunch is load imbalance ...or high resistance on the higher voltage leg....

output voltage in most modern diesels is controlled by the AVR upping the field voltage , not the rpm ....that is function of load

[David M]

quote:

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Originally posted by Wao nahele kane

Okay after considering it a while, you only have a L1, L2, N, G poles. Unless there is a winding problem then the issue is phase time. The charge controller needs input to be in a range of 60 cycles per second +/- x cycles per second. If your idle speed places your alternator outside this range then there will indeed appear to be a leg imbalance to the Charge controller that's expecting the 60 cycles per second range. This leads back to engine idle control speed. It may appear to idle up and down to the load but that doesn't mean it's within the proper cycle range. If it's out of sync of the 60 cycles per second expectation it will create an power imbalance between itself and your charge controller/inverter. The inverter/charge controller should not accept the generator current if this is the case and give you an under current, over current warning indicator.

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LOL, now you are sounding like my gen dealer - "It's an integration problem!!!!"

Pretty confident I refuted that by hooking generator (s) directly into my main distribution panel with Outback physically disconnected except for sharing the common ground. Earlier I had tested hooking generator directly to my welder, nothing else connected physically.

I have tested the gen both grounded and un-grounded (to my main ground) and with at least 4 various connections from the main circuit breaker (100amp) and several of the 50 amp sockets using 4 different cables, the welder had a different adapter to mate with the 50 amp.

When I test the Ridgid vs the 24kw the only change is the cable that connects to the generator as the Ridgid is a 30AMP twist and the 24w a 50amp, so not plug compatible.

So I have two cases where the problem is observable with Outback out of the loop.

David

Ninole Resident
Please visit vacation.ninolehawaii.com

[Bullwinkle]

The assumption being the the rigid senses its demand the same way the hino does ....the rigid may be wound differently... my guess is the rigid / subaru uses a different regulation scheme (not an avr board as does the hino)

both sides of the load - l1 and l2 should be equal at the house

....Ive had to move breakers from l1 to l2 and vice versa at the service entrance to balance the loads in the past when encountering this issue.

any new electrical installations at the house?

Failing circuit breakers (high resistance any that tend to trip easier than others) in the panel, new electric bathroom heater?

How are you balancing the battery charger demand over both legs?

all areas id look at before condemning the stator windings (see megger)

[David M]

The winding scheme was considered by the generator guy when he observed last month. He was actually here on vacation but came to visit the problem. He was to research how the Ridgid was configured vs his Genset. He never reported back.

I have "wasted" month's looking for the problem to be other than the generator itself. After all, who wants to believe their brand new, just out of the box, very expensive thingamajig could possibly be at fault After yesterday, I think I'm over that aspect.
I have flogged the outback / integration issue beyond death. The imbalance occurs regardless what is hooked up. I even retired the AC side of the outback. outback tech service has no clue, their system doesn't show any errors.

Nothing new that wasn't added months before and run on the old Genset without issue.

No tripping breakers , no warm breaker. This generator will trip the fx240 breaker at times. The Ridgid does not.

Can you tell this is frustrating grrrrrrrrr

David

Ninole Resident
Please visit vacation.ninolehawaii.com

[Wao nahele kane]

"After all, who wants to believe their brand new, just out of the box, very expensive thingamajig could possibly be at fault "
So this is a new generator that has never worked properly with the system before?

[Wao nahele kane]

This is the part that catches my eye -

"Power Factor 1 for single phase
.8 lagging for three phase
Phase Connection Single OR Three Phase" WTF? Does it have a triple winding alternator? The poles wouldn't indicate it does.

Do you have a HZ/Duty selector mode on your multi meter?

Is the unit wired for single or three phase operation?

[Wao nahele kane]

http://www.homedieselpower.com/product.p...el=HDP-Y24
Look to the bottom of the page for the PDF file for single phase wiring. You may want to confirm it's set up correctly. The outback won't work with a three phase setup.

[Bullwinkle]

factory genset test rig? ....

its a calibrated set of heating coils that match the rated output.

out put wires direct to 10, 20 30kw

fire the thing up ....measure voltage across balanced loads ...ship it ..everything else is a dark art - grin

windings come in many flavors ....this set will do 120 volt 200 amp as well.

[Wao nahele kane]

It sounds to me as if there may be a wiring issue inside the unit. Who the heck knows but I'd be pissed. There's no online literature worth a damn on that alternator. Maybe this article will help out, or not, it may be stuff you already know.
General info on alternators. http://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/Ge...sions.aspx

[David M]

Barely a year old and as far as I can tell always been this way. When I installed it last May we had decent sun so little use for a couple of months. Was also working on a couple of outback issues, getting Mate3 replaced, eventually replaced an inverter (FX3048T) so when I did notice something awry, like tripped FX240 breaker or microwave not happy, I was quick to blame the Outback. One day, I just happened to be cycling through the DSE7220 display and noticed the L1-L-2 imbalance. That led me to pulling out the Fluke 117 meter and start checking. When I first notified the generator builder they immediately suspected the Outback. These last few months have been spent making sure the Outback is good. yesterday I completely rewired the AC side just for my own peace of mind.
Last month, the generator guy was vacationing in Kona, came and took a look. Verified the windings were wired as expected, gave me a new AVR, but basically left without a solution. He was brought up to date with my conversation with Outback Tech. He also witnessed the system hooked to the Ridgid 8000 with no imbalance.
It is a Single phase, parallel zig zag pattern.
I have pics and more info on the Outback Forum : http://www.punaweb.org/Forum/topic.asp?whichpage=0.866666666666667&TOPIC_ID=20878#214468

Frustrating
David

Ninole Resident
Please visit vacation.ninolehawaii.com