Sign waving Rally at Hilo Air. Tues. 9-19 3-5pm

[Eric1600]

Major Harry said he's recently done these two things:

* Request a meeting with Helicopter Tour Industry to begin dialogue with industry.
* Request organization of a program by industry to address concerns.

His next step is
* Plan working group meetings of community and industry to see if anything can be addressed together

http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2017/0...e-meeting/

Notice most of the facebook comments on this article are people complaining about vehicle noise?

Just a reminder, here is the evidence that should be compiled if you want FAA to do something. Bitching about vague things on the internet or waving signs won't motivate the FAA.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/fie...lowfly.pdf

EVIDENCE REQUIRED:

Identification - Can you identify the aircraft? Was it military or
civil? Was it a high-or low-wing aircraft? Did you record the registration
number which appears on the fuselage? (On U.S. registered aircraft, that number will be preceded with a capital ''N.")

Time and place - Exactly when did the incident(s) occur? Where did this happen? What direction
was the aircraft flying? What was the color?

Altitude - How high (low) was the aircraft flying? On what do you base your estimate? Was the aircraft level with or below the elevation of a prominent object such as a tower or building?

Did you obtain photographs? Are there any witnesses who could confirm your estimate - do you have their names, addresses, telephone numbers?

Supporting Evidence: Witnesses, Police, Photographs. If you took photographs, we need to know the lens used, and the height of any identifiable
landmarks that appear.

FYI here's the flight rules from FAR Title 14
·
91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the
following altitudes;

(a) ·Anywhere. ·An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue
hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) ·Over congested areas. ·Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any
open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a
horizontal radius of 2.000 feet of the aircraft.
© ·Over other than congested areas.
An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In
that case, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or
structure.
(d) ·Helicopters. ·Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed In paragraph
(b) or © of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the
surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with routes or altitudes
specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.
·Helicopter operations may be conducted below the minimum altitudes set for fix
ed-wing aircraft. The reason? The helicopter's unique operating characteristics, the most important of which is its
ability to execute pinpoint emergency landings during power failure. Further, the helicopter's
increased use by law enforcement and emergency medical service agencies requires added
flexibility in the application of many FAA provisions.

Complaints like "50 flights over my house" is meaningless, so is "In some areas it is Blue Hawaiian that is the problem specifically." And for helicopters you'll need to record noise levels because altitude alone isn't an issue for FAA as you can read in the above quote.

In this age of cell phone computing power do the following:

* Record the noise levels https://www.thenoiseapp.com/ or https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gamebasic.decibel&hl=en
* Record video & audio with location/time/date stamps

Submit evidence to HiCoP for compilation, verification and summarize for FAA.

[MarkD]

The complications of setting forth when a factual violation has occurred is reason why opponents of helicopter flights sometimes take the broad route of seeking to reduce operations across the broad.

This is what New York City has done. This deal in this case resulted in a 50% reduction--elimination of some 30,000 trips a year by the start of 2017.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manh...-1.2515497

Whether something similar is achievable in Hawaii is a separate question. Anyone have any stats for Hawaii Island, with a historical perspective:

1) How many companies operate now, how many operated in 1980?
2) What is the total number of helicopters operated by the industry today; how many did it have in 1980?
3) How many average flights are there each day, how many were there in 1980?
4) What has been the expansion of sites being viewed since 1980 (flying routes)?
5) What are the comparable numbers on total revenues and number of employees?

By what rate is the industry growing? (I assume there is some growth. We can also assume the rate of growth could be independent from changes in annual visitor counts; helicopter tour patronage could rise because a) the tours are gaining in popularity and b) visitors arrive with more expendable income.)

It seems that flights per day might be considered one of the main indices. How many flights per day might East Hawaii island expect in 2025? 2030? 2040?

(Our barking dog regulations offer some insight here. It is not just the loudness of the barking, but its frequency and duration that is written into the code. Focusing on flight heights and routes has value, but IMO it makes more sense to look at the size and scope of the helicopter industry, i.e., total flights per day.)

[leilanidude]

Comparing 1980 to today is irrelevant, as is trying to compare New York City to Puna.

The industry has grown and shrunk, numerous times over the years as the lava flow is the main attractant for most of the flights. If the lava goes away, the number of flights drops. When the lava flow was approaching Pahoa, the number of flights was WAY up. Those flights included multiple daily Civil Defense, police and fire department flights, which at the time, were the ones most likely to be very low and hovering above the lava, right near Pahoa.

[MarkD]

Comparing 1980 to today is irrelevant, as is trying to compare New York City to Puna.

Strongly disagree, the history of the industry, which speaks to the trend of helicopter tours as a popular visitor activity, is highly relevant. Agree that periodic volcano activity is a significant factor, but helicopter tours are popular statewide for Hawaii's scenery.

[leo]

Another variable to consider is the cruise ship schedule.

[terracore]

https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/...eckdam.pdf

"On July 6, 2012, FAA issued the North Shore Helicopter Route Final Rule (the Rule),
Requiring civil
helicopters operating along the north shore of Long
Island to utilize a route located approximately one
mile offshore (the Route), the use of which had previously been voluntary. Helicopter operators carrying
passengers between New York City and Long Island
prefer the Route over other viable options to the south
because it is consistently faster and less susceptible to
weather delays. The Route was originally established
in 2008 following a stakeholder meeting convened
by Senator Charles Schumer and Representative Tim
Bishop to address noise complaints stemming from
helicopter operations along the north shore. As an
outgrowth of that meeting, FAA published the then-
voluntary Route in the Helicopter Route Chart for New
York, effective May 8, 2008.
5
Two years later, on May 26, 2010, in response to an
unspecified number of noise-related complaints from
nearby residents that were brought to FAA’s attention by
elected officials, the agency issued a notice of proposed
rulemaking (the NPRM) that would
require
all civil helicopters operating along the north shore of Long Island to
utilize the Route, subject to certain limited exceptions...."

The FAA got sued by a helicopter trade group and the FAA won. The decision was appealed and the trade group lost again.

There is precedent.

"In light of this decision, it is a fair guess that the FAA will find itself increasingly importuned on consistency-of-agency-action grounds to do for other homeowners around the country what it did for the folks living on the north shore of Long Island and who, like them, do not much care for the noise (however small) caused by overflying aircraft. It may be that the FAA will find itself hard-pressed to distinguish what the court has implicitly found to be a “nuisance” for those living on that stretch of land from the impact of aircraft on those living elsewhere."

If the FAA fails to act on Big Island noise complaints, the standard procedure is complain about them to our elected officials. The congress person or senator will issue an inquiry to the agency and they are required by law to respond to any congressional inquiry (I can't remember the time frame I think it's either 15 or 30 days). If your complaint to the elected official includes bullet points (like failure to follow agency's own precedents) they usually get included to what the agency has to reply to.

ETA: content, also this link informative: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/a...noise-rule

[Mimosa]

Cruise ship days are currently Tues - Thurs and Saturdays.
It was difficult to understand the signage at airport entrance.
The signage we thought was a police officer memorial or TMT protest.
Blue Hawaii has 2 flights from west side to Hilo and both helicopters fly at over 3500ft A.G.L at 7:55am - 7 days a week unless dumping rain.
We know it is almost 8am when they are headed to hilo for a lua break and a yummy catered breakfast prior to refueling and the rest of the island tour back to Kona .
We think that a 10 percent tax should be put on all paying passengers to help fund the rail - fail project on Oahu.
They do not fly on rainy days so that is a blessing nor do they fly all night.
With day light shorter in winter - less flights .
It is a great idea the concept but our elected reps in Congress or Senate also need to be directly involved in our perspective.
Mrs.Mimosa

[glinda]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mimosa

Blue Hawaii has 2 flights from west side to Hilo and both helicopters fly at over 3500ft A.G.L at 7:55am - 7 days a week unless dumping rain..

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Plus, of course, the flights they have that go, from Waikoloa, over the saddle through Volcano and on to the eruption site several times a day. Do they have an office at the Hilo Airport as well?

[MarkD]

terrace, the link you posted is partially titled "Regulating Annoyance." How dare you so disparage the helicopter tour industry.

[PaulW]

Peaceful demonstrations warm the cockles of my heart but if you helicopters haters don't get busy collecting some actual proof then people are going to keep enjoying their amazing views of the lava, no matter how much you envy their elitism.