In Shakespeare's time, bear baiting was big time entertainment. The theater had to compete with the public bear-baiting so the plays had to appeal to that mentality as well. Granted that was 400 years ago, but the English were no better. And foxhunting is still done ...
point being, European culture is not fundamentally more virtuous.
And I'm pretty sure there is dog fighting on the mainland.
Do I think the two sports are awful? Yes!
Doubt the cockfighting is going anywhere soon though. It's too ingrained.
One might make the argument that these culturally sanctioned forms of bloodletting supply a channel for release of aggressive impulses that would otherwise be expressed by humans against humans. As opposed to thinking that it teaches people to enjoy violence, I would argue that the people who enjoy this enjoy violence and bloodlust and we should maybe be glad it's only roosters and not entirely taken out on their families and others.
Just a theory. I wish we were all nonviolent souls.
This is a local joke that John Rabi posted on Konaforum. Hope he won't mind if I bring it over here. If you don't get this joke, you may not be ready to move to Hawai'i.
quote:
FOR LOCALS ONLY!
The Honolulu Police Department received reports of illegal cockfights being held in the Ewa area and duly dispatched the infamous Detective Chang to investigate. He reported to his sergeant the next morning.
'Get tree main groups in da cock-fightin hui,' he began.
'Good work. Who are they?' the sergeant asked.
Chang replied confidently, 'Get haoles, Portagees, and da Syndicate.'
Puzzled, the sergeant asked, 'How did you find that out in one night?'
'Wuz easy cuz,' he replied, 'I wen' Ewa side and watched da cockfight. Could tell had haoles when one duck was entered in da fight.'
The sergeant nodded, 'I'll buy that. But what about the others?'
Chang intoned knowingly, 'Well, I feegured get Portagees when someone wen' bet on da duck.'
'Ah, yes,' said the sergeant, 'And how did you deduce the Syndicate was involved?'
'Da duck won.'
Posting of this joke in no way makes light of the nasty business of setting dogs at each others' throats, or even roosters.
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If these miserable bastards want an outlet for their violent tendencies, have them stop by my house and try to steal my dog to train their dogs, they'l get their final fill of violence. I say again they're rabid animals and the sooner they're put down permanently the better. It takes an abject coward to delight in the pain and suffering of a poor animal for enjoyment. If this really is their culture the sooner they and their culture are eradicated from the face of the planet, the better.
dick wilson
dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"
One point of the joke is that the haole point of view is not the king of the hill. If you notice the police in the joke aren't for a second shaking their heads at the immorality of the actual fighting. What interest they have in stopping it, which is minor, is directed at the organized crime and illegal gambling component, not the animal cruelty.
It was only recently that they passed an ordinance here making the penalty for wantonly killing an animal more than a joke. Or to outlaw selling domestic animal flesh as food. Do I like it? No! But ranting about eradication is either empty or scary.
Seriously, Dick, are you going to become a mass murderer or what?
Because that's what it sounds like, vigilante threats.
The last thing this place needs, with so much suspicion of newcomers, is for newcomers to have a rep for being gun-toting vigilantes out to shoot people for doing stuff that's been going on for generations. That doesn't do much for those of us who are trying to make friends.
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I'm quit, serious about defending my dog. He is a part of the family,
any threat to my family will always be answered with deadly force. period. Dogs are not native to hawaii, so there is no way anyone can claim a cultural history of dog fighting. If the idea of defending ones family makes me a vigilante, then I guess I am one. Will I go out and look for them at their cultural event no. Come to where I live and harm or try to harm a family member. die there. Also, I never made mention of a firearm. I believe in dealing with that type of scum up close and personal.
dick wilson
dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"
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I don't think Dick is trying to be a vigilante, but he does make sense. like I have said before my animals are my children, would I kill if someone tried to hurt my children intentionally. Yes I would. I would do everything in my power to protect my family at all costs.
I think any parent whether your child is human or animal its human nature to protect your young.
And I think Mothers are a lot more protective than fathers, you really want to bring out the grizzly bear in a mother mess with her child. GOD HELP YOU.
setting my soul free....
setting my soul free....
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Personally I never buy "culture" as an excuse to justify anything on its own. "Culture" defended slavery, other forms of racism, and the subjugation of women. In some cultures it's perfectly fine to perform female circumcision on girls with no say in the matter. I put abuse of animals for entertainment or so some insecure jerk can boost his ego in the same general category where I don't think the "culture" argument carries any weight. I think the immediate solution is jail time and the long term solution is education and eradication of poverty.
Culture may not carry ethical weight with any of us, when it comes to certain activities, but when culture has power in the state (meaning the government, not state of the union), it is a reality to be reckoned with.
I think it's excessive that they cane people for spitting in Singapore, or hang people for possessing hashish in Thailand, but they do. It is their culture.
THIS state may be one of the 50 now, but it was built in large part by people from Asia and the Philippines, and their ways are traditional here, whether you like it or not.
Do you think that the police couldn't stop these activities if they really truly wanted to? Do you think none of them have cousins etc. who attend?
As for the vigilante remark, I still think you guys are talking excessively about violence in response to a non-existent threat. You're talking like you live in some castle or stockade surrounded by hostiles coming after you and yours.
That is not the case, and I really feel it is over the top to start posting about shooting and killing people to protect you and yours. You are not under siege here and it's just throwing a lot of unnecessary emotional rhetoric into the discussion.
When roaming bands of dog raiders and child killers actually start taking down Punawebbers, their children, and their pets, then it would make sense to take a position on how you will respond to defend yourselves. But that isn't the reality, or the likely reality, so why even go there? [?] It's simply inflammatory.
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Everyone is entitled to their culture, your rights end where mine begin. I was not the one who made mention of the theft of dogs to train fighting dogs. When that becomes a possibility, or even likely then respect for another culture becomes moot. Just because it is someones culture that does not make it right or civilized. Ive managed to live in several countries and not had any problems being accepted. But I also have never failed to safeguard my family. The Aztec cut out living hearts as part of their culture, acceptable in todays world, no.
Am I a hoele yes, am I also entitled to my culture yes. No one has yet explained how dog fighting can be part of Hawaiian culture, if dogs were not introduced until 1778, I'm all ears. If they are part of another culture, then why is that any more deserving of respect then mine. As far as the police being able to stop dog fighting if they wanted to, hasn't happened anywhere else in the country.
dick wilson
dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"
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My understanding is that dogs were introduced by the Polynesians.
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