Understanding Kau Inoa

[oink]

Wow! JWFITZ,
That was very bold but I think it probably flew over the heads of many. Or, it flew over my head and I didn't understand your point. I'm thinking it was the former.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Jon]

LOL... so its the white mans fault...

HAHAHA


Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"

[oink]

That's not what I got out of it.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Jon]

quote:

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Originally posted by oink

That's not what I got out of it.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

---

"There are a fair number of nut cases in this world that for religious reasons believe that white people of pure blood are the righteous and god-directed rulers of the whole planet"

stating this as an example is kind of telling...

Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"

[ElBee]

Hey Jon, You said I was "wrong" but didn't explain why. I'm just trying to get a handle on this issue. It does seem to me that people whose land was stolen are due reparations of some kind.

[Jon]

LOL... you just ask to know if you were wrong... not an explanation... []

Their own belief system says land can not be owned, so how was it stolen and who from?

it seems to me that some people want to lay claim to land by way of history, but they only want to look back so far in history, then stop and say, "see its mine". Who had it before does not matter... its just "mine".





Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"

[rasman]

I believe from talking to many of the Kanaka Maoli I know, that its not as much a race issue to them as it is a human rights issue. The Hawaiian people have had their land, their rights, their way of life cajoled and out right stolen from them, taken by threat and force. This was simply a criminal act, one of which the U.S. has come to recognize but not sincerely address. We are currently at war on foreign soils supposedly to address human rights violations and help spread democracy.
The missionary boys, Dole, and the U.S. government who later backed their ambitions violated the human and sovereign rights of the Hawaiian people. Time has not healed all wounds. The Feds have played a game of stall tactic while initiating race based land grants which rarely are awarded. Just like there is no way in hell any African American is going to get 40 acres and a mule, there is no way that the US or its State of Hawaii is going to give up all the land its promised to the Hawaiian people, at least not voluntarily.
Land however is only one issue and members of the rightful Kingdom of Hawaii feel that all the land is respectfully property of the people of the Kingdom. But the bigger issue is in fact sovereignty it self.
Even in Iraq there has been a grand vision of a "pull out" date; a day when Iraqis will run their own democratic government and enjoy Iraqi sovereignty. So the question on many minds is: Why hasn't the same gesture been made towards the Hawaiians; a chance to decide how they would like to govern themselves? Well as you know the military's main scape goat for meddling in the affairs of other countries is to " insure the spread of democracy" The Feds recognizing a sovereign Hawaiian government would ad a paradox to that reasoning. And let's face it, the U.S. has never been about giving up territory, especially territory with such strategic positioning as these isolated islands.
But I believe that all of us, whether from here or elsewhere should support the recognition of a sovereign Hawaiian Kingdom with respect.
I believe the interests of justice alone warrants such a recognition.
One Hawaiian Kingdom application I have in my possession is open to anyone of any ethnic background, so I don't see a race issue. I believe it is those who are afraid of what some impacts and ramifications may be of giving rightful sovereignty to the Hawaiians who are ultimately creating a race issue in order to justify a continued oppression of people and their natural right.
Now mind you, there are plenty of Hawaiians who are happy to be U.S. citizens and that is fine for them, but to those who long to have their rightful sovereignty acknowledged must have their rights as well. With a public apology given by Pres. Clinton their is no more room to debate the rights and wrongs, but it is time to address and correct those wrongs in a timely and prudent manner.
In my opinion it is time for the U.S. government and it's citizens living here in Hawaii to just humble themselves and be willing to give back what was wrongly taken( this is just good morality). we are going to have to act as our conscience would dictate and work/negotiate with the rightful heirs of Hawaii. It is also time for the Hawaiians to look realistically at what they are up against dealing with the U.S.
The U.S. ain't pulling out of Hawaii anytime soon and any suggestion that they simply hand over the state back to the Kingdom is not going to be received with any earnest. So cooperation and compromise are the key to any solution here. We non-Hawaiians must not think that a struggle to empower one group of people is necesarily an attempt to disenfranchise or disable others. If the U.S. wants to be taken seriously as a freedom fighting nation and defender of international rights as so has been its banner and moniker, then it truly must lead by a better example than it has in the past. Aloha-

[JWFITZ]

I wouldn't in any way be suggesting that the Hawaiian people are lacking real complaints. They do have very legitimate complaints. Many people around the world do. I would suggest however two things.

First, while the Hawaiian people have a valid complaint, to be a responsible complaint it needs to be determined against whom. I'm not a deserving target. I had nothing to do with any of it, and didn't benefit in the slightest from it. In fact, my process of moving to Hawaii is identical in process and motivation for the first migration here. I came on a boat looking for a new better life. I came to an undeveloped, unoccupied piece of land and settled there.

Secondly, while its certainly unfortunate but all too often common to have been screwed out of home and livelihood, to then proceed to attempt to screw other people out of home and livelihood isn't a constructive answer.

We are not going to be able to hang in there in the forthcoming environment unless we pull together. I expect mutual need may bring us closer together than bloodlines might ever have.

[Mitzi M]

Wow, rasman, that was a really great response.
I am only beginning to get an understanding of these issues here in Hawai'i, but I do have some experience with native rights and culture on the mainland. Clearly they are different in many ways.

What strikes me first is the fact that things changed drastically for most "mainland" tribes longer ago. Here in Hawai'i it has been entirely within the last 200 years. As has happened with so many other peoples, it seemed that the Hawaiian's language and culture might fade away forever until the cultural renaissance in the 1970's. Personally, I feel empowered and happy that this culture is surviving. I also feel honored that Hawaiians share their customs, language and art with people from elsewhere, like myself.

[Jon]

Sharing is one thing... I am not sure some want to share at all...

Funny thing is, all the people I have met in Hawaii were nice and did all they could to make me feel welcome... the only time I get the feeling I am not welcome is reading the paper, or some of the things online.


Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"