Long Term Effects of Bulldozing

[truebluecollar]

Oh, one more thing. We found that it's best to leave the stumps and roots in the ground rather than yank them out by force, because on the areas where we pulled them out, we have so much soil it is like a mudhole. The dead roots seem to help keep the soil firm.

[tahitianskies]

Thanks so much for the great info everyone, we're definitely leaning towards an herbicide at this point. We already have Crossbow and have heard that it is effective on guava, so we'll try that first. Also, clearing small areas and treating them one by one seems to be the best way to control any regrowth and stay attentive to treating it. It's good to know there are other options over bulldozing, which seems to tear up the soil and other natural wildlife around it, as well as leaving unsightly piles of smashed up trees and soil that you can't really do much with. Thanks again!

[MarkP]

To what degree, if any, does the herbicide taken up by the tree, whether sprayed on the leaves or put on the cut stump, get into the soil (through the target plant's roots) and affect nearby plants? This would be the cost of doing business with herbicide, so it would be wise to use as little as possible of course. I have heard a lot of arguments against using herbicide but the issue that rings true to me is that it is very easy to overdo the application or get impatient. You wind up using more than you need to, sometimes several times more, due to sloppy or lazy application. If done right you will often be crawling around on your hands and knees and, well, working hard, to make sure that only the target plant gets poisoned. Since the point of painting a fresh cut stump is that the poison gets sucked into the tree and gets throughout the tree's system, including the roots, there is bound to be some effect on nearby plants if the roots are left in place.

[DanielP]

Mark,

I have used the "paint the fresh-cut stump" often. Never any effect on neighboring plants. It is quite specific.

Dan

Ed. It is best as a two person job; one cutting, one painting.

[ric]

Keep in mind when applying the crossbow. It needs to stay dry for 2 hours after application. Pick a sunny day to do it. After 2 hours, enough of the stuff will have gone into the system to be effective.

[DanielP]

The active ingredient that is most effective against Waiwi (Strawberry Guava) trysomthinorother is 16% in the Crossbow (the rest is 2-4D). It is 60% in Remedy.

Dan

[JWFITZ]

Hi, Mark, you're pretty well spot on in your assessment.

A note on herbicides. I don't have a knee-jerk reaction against them either, but I would caution that some very very valuable Hawaiian plants(taro in particular) is extremely sensitive even to residues, and it may be years before you can effectively plant a sprayed area. . .just be aware and cautious.

Biochar, biochar, biochar. There are no weed trees.

http://sensiblesimplicity.lefora.com/

[Hawaiibound]

If hand clearing and using base rock, etc. to level/grade where the house will be built can be done, can't the dozer be avoided altogether?

I'm far from an expert, but I wonder if a dozer is even REALLY needed to develop a piece of land?

[MarkP]

Many people do forgo the bulldozing. It can be done but that doesn't mean it's easy. I myself tried hand clearing but the going was very slow. When push came to shove I was going to have to bring in a truckload of fill or get a bulldozer. It would have taken several truckloads of fill to do what the dozer did and the dozer did things the fill could not do. Sometimes if you want good landscaping you have to dig down a bit and to do that in lava you need a dozer or an excavator.

I am not selling out on the "no bulldozing" crowd but until you have worked on some of this land yourself you can't really appreciate what you are up against. In many parts of the world you could go out into untouched forest and the ground would be flat enough to walk around easily. Not so here on lava. I found it difficult to even make my way 10' off of the road. Most of the time I was either swimming through the uluhe ferns or prying apart strawberry guava saplings that were like the bars on a cage. When I did make it down to ground level I had my leg disappear up to the hip in a crack on more than one occasion. All of these challenges could be dealt with without a bulldozer but machinery makes it so much easier.

T play the devil's advocate, what is it that a dozer does that is so bad? Even a D-9 can't compete with Madame Pele. In some places the lava is a smooth impenetrable sheet like pavement. In other places it is like an enormous pile of rubble as though a building collapsed. Both conditions are "natural". To answer my own question, it is the vegetation that was on the lava prior to dozing that is difficult to replace. An ohia tree would be impossible to replace in one lifetime. Also, while the ferns and even ohia will sprout and begin the process of reforesting (IIRC uluhe means newcomer in hawaiian because it is one of the first plants to cover new lava or disturbed areas), there are many weeds that are faster. I was cautioned not to doze until I really needed to because of all the weeds that would grow up. It is true. On my place the weeds greatly outnumber the new uluhe, hapuu, and ohia.

So, if you stayed right away from mature ohia trees to avoid messing up their roots and fanatically weeded out alien plants, dozing an area would simulate a new lava field or land exposed by a landslide, both of which are common natural events in Hawaii. In fact, these natural events would not spare the Ohias so you are already ahead of the game. That is the theory at least. In practice you would be hard pressed to hold down the weeds.

My point is that the islands are all giant piles of lava rubble. The rubble left by dozing would not be any worse technically. It is the foothold given to alien weeds by human activities that is the problem.

[Hawaiibound]

We have been lucky, and have been able to clear by hand our drive and parking area, and we're halfway through the housepad area... while it's pretty level there is definately need for fill, etc.

My biggest concern has been safety so it sounds like a dozer isn't used for safety reasons at all (blocking holes, etc.) and the option is based purely on preference and ability/willingness to clear by hand and add rock filler.

I think it's fascintating to tell you the truth... just fascinating. Mark, I totally know what you mean about the slate of hard, solid lava and then areas of complete rubble. Unbelievable! I love it