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Kahunascott,
Incorrect; The “beach road” is County owned right of way all the way to Hilo. This includes sections surrounded by HPP and Shipmans, the legal description remains under County ownership. It’s was a public owned road long before Shipmans arrival or the concept of HPP. The county gained ownership of the roadway after it’s establishment when the Islands became the State of Hawaii. Read the plat records concerning the areas, the roads designation is clear.
Edit to add:
The County has never relinquished the roads ownership. Fred Blas has already noted intent to put the road through again. As per federal dollars, the project is already on the books and the State of Hawaii has already paid for the study. Shipmans themselves offered to put the road in through a loan to the County years ago(County declined offer). There's a great deal of historical record surrounding the Beach road.
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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Kane,
I can't speak for the Shipman's route but in HPP the County only has a 10' easment along the makai side Beach Road, not Beach Rd. Therefore,the road is not County owned but private property.
And, no emergency road will ever be built in a tsunami zone.
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it cost when it’s free...now here come the taxes.....
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it cost when it’s free...now here come the taxes.....
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The portion of Beach Road between Makuu in HPP and Hawaiian Beaches is a "Road in Limbo". You can look it up online on the County's web site under Roads in Limbo, under DPW. There are more than 200 Roads in Limbo in the County - roads that the County and State argued over for years, with the County finally agreeing to be responsible for the Roads in Limbo in 2006. However, County was only given $2 million to repair the roads and that money was used up very quickly.
Last summer all 200+ Roads In Limbo were inspected and prioritized based on several factors, including # of residents and emergency access. Roads were ranked in first, second, or third priority to be fixed, i.e. paved or otherwise improved.
There are 14 or so homes on Beach Road on the first 1/2-1 of the HPP side. That portion of the road is in decent shape. The homes on Hawaiian Beaches side are all in the first half mile of Beach Road where the road dis in decent shape. There are no homes in the middle of Beach Road.
Essentially, Beach Road (Old Government Road) as it lies between HPP and Hawaiian Beaches is in the 3rd priority listing of roads to be improved for Lower Puna district. Given that there is little to no money to fix the roads in the first priority grouping, I don;t see Beach Road being improved any time soon.
Beach Road between Makuu and Kaloli is considered a private road in a private subdivision. I can tell you the County does not consider Beach Road a County Road, nor is it on the County's road inventory list.
I don't know about Railroad heading into Hilo on Shipman property as it is on private property (Shipman).
Honolulu Landing - Waa waa is also a Road in Limbo. The community has been divided on how they wanted the road improved during past community meetings and thus little headway has been made in improving that road.
quote:
Originally posted by Wao nahele kane
Kahunascott,
Incorrect; The “beach road” is County owned right of way all the way to Hilo. This includes sections surrounded by HPP and Shipmans, the legal description remains under County ownership. It’s was a public owned road long before Shipmans arrival or the concept of HPP. The county gained ownership of the roadway after it’s establishment when the Islands became the State of Hawaii. Read the plat records concerning the areas, the roads designation is clear.
Edit to add:
The County has never relinquished the roads ownership. Fred Blas has already noted intent to put the road through again. As per federal dollars, the project is already on the books and the State of Hawaii has already paid for the study. Shipmans themselves offered to put the road in through a loan to the County years ago(County declined offer). There's a great deal of historical record surrounding the Beach road.
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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Spunky,
Again… Beach Road is an “exception” with regard to HPP ownership, it is not completely owned by HPP as the 10’ makai portion of “Beach Rd” (HPPs designation) is public domain roadway. It’s also noted within the HPP deed and remains public domain. See the following maps that also express the aforementioned http://www.hawaii-county.com/maps/tmk/1/1-5/h15029.tif and http://www.hawaii-county.com/maps/tmk/1/1-5/h15053.tif
The entire roadway regardless of the current County “consideration”, “priority designation” or width is still by legal definition - public domain roadway. Disputes regarding responsibility are moot, the roadway is not privately owned by anyone. It’s a means of ingress/egress and has been recognized as such since its creation. Whether or not the roadway is now grown over by trees and or illegally blockaded by boulders, it's all irrelevant with regard to its legal status.
Note: as the Beach Road cuts through HPP it does not conform to the normal subdivision layout but rather the subdivision conforms to the Beach Road regarding parcel positions. That's because they weren't allowed ownership of the road. HPP may take care of it and use it but that's the extent of HPP's interest.
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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Kahunascott,
What is the easements designation and where is it located? Look on the maps above. The "easement" as you call it is an exception to ownership and HPP does not privately own that "exception". How you determine that a county easement on a roadway designating that portion of the roadway as county owned road and is somehow now private property escapes rational comprehension.
Why do you suppose there's an "easment" the entire distance of Beach Road through HPP? Could it be for appearances or just perhaps the county wanted to draw a line through HPP? Maybe the county intended to one day put an oil pipeline down that portion? Hmmm... wonder why the County wanted an ownership exception along that so called "privately owned" (as you say) section? Any rational guess?
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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People put too much faith in internet maps, you need signed survey maps and recorded deed descriptions and to be able to follow title back hand over hand
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Seeb,
Yep... that's why I read those long winded seemingly non decipherable text based documents too. I’ve been doing it for well over 30 years now, part of my career. Likewise though, people need to learn how to navigate and decipher the wealth of digital records on the net and know the difference between internet maps and digital copies of official records. When it comes to survey documents, typical to reality, survey maps aren’t hewn out of thin air or mistakenly drafted and reflect more than not, the reality and history of an area rather accurately as they were intended. If you noticed when looking through these maps, they are date stamped to the left and when using the site directly, they sometimes indicate a date on the link to the particular map. Those indicate updated changes to the map on a particular date and some of those dates are very recent… 3-3-11, 1-24-11 etc. Something such as a long road like the beach road would not be overlooked by the County and left as is if not as is (as is, meaning legally).
NOTE: "STAUS OF" column, meaning that's the status of the area as dated on X, otherwise it stands as is. That's the difference between a digital copy of official record and an “internet map".
See link to map site directly and note above "status of".
http://www.hawaii-county.com/maps/tmk/1.htm#1-1
Before you leap to the next tangent… we aren’t building the road, we are discussing its status, so no, we don’t need the officially signed and stamped plat maps and legal description. For the purpose of this conversation the maps stand as the only presentable evidence of the current status of the road and they are based on updated official county record.
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If anyone is interested in Historical Maps of Hawaii based on Land Court records etc. The following website is a great resource with lots of interesting maps and information. http://dags.hawaii.gov/survey/search.php
You may have to dig into the land court records before finding it helpfull.
Here's a map example used in Land Court Application 1053 (A Shipman application)... It shows Old Government Beach Road, cites the exception # as Exception #1 and the Owner of the road as the Territory of Hawaii. Also note the citation "Hiiaka's Footprint" along the coast just south of the Exception #1 citation. http://dags.hawaii.gov/survey/lca/App_10...pt1of2.tif
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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Cwaters,
I didn’t intend to take your thread beyond its intended scope, I apologize. Evidently there aren’t many people here who have an opinion on the matter. I as you do have on opinion on the matter and am for paving the subject section of the road. I’ve spent several machine hours on the road to seal off Sand Hill breaches via County request, etc and tired of the general neglect. I’ve rounded up a couple others not listed on the “email” from “J.B.” to attend the 6-20 meeting who are also for paving the roadway. We’ll need to be ready for the negative input that’s primarily based on hearsay, baseless fears (paranoia) and selfishness as you’ve already expressed in another thread. Neglect breeds neglect and it's time to put an end to it, we’ll be there the 20th also.
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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wao nahele kane - I did not mention County "consideration" or "priority designation" - merely that Beach Road betwen HPP and HB is a Road in Limbo. And the County does consider roads in private subdivisions to be private roads.
Although I have dealt with road issues for years in my career I get the impression that you are the kind of person who will always argue that you are right. Say what you will. I don't think Beach Road between HP and HB will be improved any time soon. Honolulu Landing is a whole other story......
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