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And Dayna, don't get overwhelmed...the longer you're here, the easier it'll become. I still have strong memories of our earlier visits when we'd be out driving and my partner would say "You need to turn right onto Ka-ma-aye-a-m... that road we just passed." After a while you'll start to see patterns in the names and words, and they become easier to sound out (and remember).
In addition to Hawaiian, you'll also need to become conversant in pidgin, the local dialect. But while it's respectful to learn (and use) commonly used Hawaiian words, I've decided that when it comes to pidgin, it's respectful to understand it, but not to try to speak it. (I'd be interested to hear others' opinions on that topic). Whenever I've witnessed non-locals (of any ethnicity) try to speak pidgin, it always seems like a caricature, not a respectful discussion.
... and listen to the radio ... na na na na na na nAtive !
aloha,
pog
quote:
Whenever I've witnessed non-locals (of any ethnicity) try to speak pidgin, it always seems like a caricature, not a respectful discussion.
It's not a good thing if you speak it awkwardly. I don't try either, maybe a word here and there.
My husband always speaks pidgin to anyone who speaks it. After putting in a few years on survey crews and other jobs where it was spoken all the time, he learned.
My younger son has been here about eight years working on painting crews with local guys, and he speaks pidgin with the guys just fine. Also my DIL moved to Maui when she was in her teens and had a local boyfriend, so she was fluent and spoke it around the house a lot. So no, it isn't considered disrespectful if you can pull it off; it will help break down the barriers.
If you stumble over it and get it wrong, you sound stupid, like a haole trying to be something he's not. (like I would).
My husband has the laugh down exactly; you couldn't tell he's not local if you heard him without seeing him. Some people are just good at picking up dialect. He was the same when he worked in Japan, got the sound of Japanese down very fast, even though he couldn't speak that much of it.
The place names aren't difficult, only unfamiliar when we arrive. My grandson was born here, and you say any place name or Hawaiian word to him and he says it right back and never stumbles on the syllables. He has a harder time with difficult English words.
One thing about learning street names -- you will find that local pronunciation may not be the same as proper Hawaiian language pronunciation. Most locals do not speak Hawaiian, but they all know place names, naturally. They pronounce it the way people do in the locality, not by formal rules. So be prepared to have people correct you with some words if you are too correct in your pronunciation -- and look at you funny too. [:p]
Then you try it the local way and happen to run into a purist -- and they correct you.
So don't worry about it, you can't please everyone.
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the "hau" is pronounced as though you were closing your mouth around it.
...and don't worry, it'll come. My wife thought she would never get it but now she gets around just fine. I think for us haoles the problem is that it not a Germanic or Latin language so we have no basis to understand it.
As far a pidgin, not a bad idea to get used to it but don't try to speak it unless it is yours. Some will consider it disrepectful. It is something that belongs to the Hawaiians and locals. I stick with my mainland accent and have no trouble making friends. Best thing . . .be real.
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It seems like a challenge but it's not that unusual. I had a relative visiting from New England who expressed bewilderment at the Hawaiian names. I said to him.... yeah it's not as easy in New England with names like Connecticut, Narraganset, Pocotopaug, Massapequa etc. He had to admit that I had a point.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
Funny, Rob. Well, those are Native American language names, are they not? Iat least the last two). Language without a common base for English are hard for those of us with English & Romance language wiring. Then make the words long ...
jackson, I totally agree with being real. Also I do agree that talking pidgin for humor by those who don't speak it naturally could seem disrespectful (and pathetic).
OTOH, pidgin is the result of people who don't speak the same language learning to communicate with each other, specifically as they worked and did business together.
Today there are folks here who only speak pidgin, and if you work closely with them, they appreciate it if you speak something like the same way. Makes them feel like you understand them. So the process of bringing languages together is not dead.
There are pidgin speakers with two voices, but others with just the one.
I think maybe it is natural for my kids because they grew up in a sub-culture using their own lingo with their friends. It would be unnatural for them to not pick up pidgin and use it I can see the difference in fluency too with the amount of time they've worked on crews.
So I agree that it's not good to speak poor pidgin, but I can't agree that there's no place for a haole transplant to speak pidgin. If you work side by side with people all day who only speak a different dialect than you, then you have immersion, and immersion is the best way to learn to speak a language, and it's natural to do so. Not only that, but if you insist on not learning or trying, you can seem like you think you're too good for it. (and by "you" I mean "one" -- not you. [  ] )
While Hawaiian is a beautiful language, quite honestly, I think pidgin is more fun and really expressive. I wish I could speak it ... as it is, I enjoy listening.
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Pidgin is, I think, a dialect of English and NOT Hawaiian. Correct me if I am wrong.
Pidgin refers in general to a makeshift language that occurs when speakers of different languages come together. The word pidgin is thought to come from the English word business. Pidgin languages typically evolve from doing business. For example, there is a Chinese pidgin.
Hawaiian pidgin is a unique entity and involves seven languages. The base language is English primarily, Hawaiian secondarily. By which I mean that you will find plenty of Hawaiian words in pidgin. The other linguistic influences come from Chinese, Japanese, Filipino, Samoa, and Korea.
Oftentimes with pidgin, the dominant language is shown in the words, but the grammar/structure will reflect the other language.
When a pidgin language becomes nativized, such that a community claims it as their first language, that is linguistically a Creole language, not pidgin. (You would know about Creole.) By definition, true pidgin is not anyone's first language.
Pidgin historically has a connotation of class inferiority, because it has often arisen out of colonialism, slavery, indentured servitude.
One big difference between pidgin and a dialect, IMHO, is that a dialect often arises out of regional isolation. However, true pidgin is created entirely by CONTACT with those who speak differently from each other. But then Creole takes that contact-produced language and makes it the property of a certain population group. Then the language is depidginalized. (yes, real word).
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I think you prove my point: "Pidgin" is English. That's why we can understand it, although it is peppered with Hawaiian such as "pilikai". The point I would make is that Pidgin is NOT Hawaiian and is "local" only in the sense that it is a local variation of English. It is NOT Hawaiian. It is not even CLOSE to Hawaiian. On the plantations, English won out.
I want Hawaiian to win and to become a language again. If you speak "Pidgin" don't get too prideful: You are not speaking Hawaiian. You are speaking English.
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Daynas you will pick it up quick with the last language you learned. As a Alaska Hawaii snow bird it takes time. Don't speak Pidgin or Hawaiian until you learn it with both meaning and accent to the words. Learning is great. After a couple of months you will pick it up. For me I can read Hawaiian, understand Pidgin after get back into the beat again. You will learn to understand the meaning - which can be many from each same word. Aloha to Hawaii it is much warmer!
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